Re: Club football 2025
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2025 9:03 pm
Was anybody at the ‘Battle of Clonbullogue‘ today?!
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As far as I am aware (could be wrong), there is already provision to have amalgamated teams in a senior championship in Offaly - should clubs be willing to join and enter senior championship I know it was discussed and fairly sure it got over the line. I think this was done either last year or the year before but to date, no clubs have taken this up. Think I remember hearing M Duignan talking about it. From what I recall, clubs needed to be intermediate or junior clubs. Senior B clubs were not included. My recollection is that the clubs do not need to be from same parish and do not even need to be connected to each other geographically. I am not sure if it meant they couldnt play in own junior / inter championship but as far as I recall, i think that they could play both. If there was more than one team, I think it was suggested they would play in separate group to regular groups and one quarter final place or prelim Q-final place may have been kept for them. Again, not certain this got through but think it may have. Can anyone clarify?Anon44 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 21, 2025 11:11 pm The idea of joining clubs in the same parish/area is interesting. In Killeigh parish, you would be joining 3 clubs into 1 and in Daingean it would be 4 into 1, I might be mistaken on both. You might make a team capable of contesting a senior championship, but you will reduce playing numbers in those areas.
I’ve thought about it a good bit and at the minute there is no possible way to entertain the idea due to the current calendar, especially given our dual tradition.
Thinking off the top of my head, would there be a way to streamline Senior B down to Junior and run them off quicker, but delay the Senior A until they are done. Then, after the conclusions of those, run a Senior A championship with amalgamations. We will never be able to do the Kerry model, the hurling rightfully wouldn’t allow it.
I think it would lead to a brilliant Senior A, plus some of the best players in the county would get to play at a higher standard than with their individual clubs. Given the dominance of Tullamore at underage, which almost certainly won’t stop, it could be ominous enough for the senior championships future.
To be honest, it’ll never happen. There’s probably too many negatives which outweigh the positives, but it’s an interesting conversation all the same.
I never heard that, but is worth trying. There may be potential difficulties ahead, but the more players getting Senior Football experience will be a good idea.jimbob17 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 24, 2025 11:29 pmAs far as I am aware (could be wrong), there is already provision to have amalgamated teams in a senior championship in Offaly - should clubs be willing to join and enter senior championship I know it was discussed and fairly sure it got over the line. I think this was done either last year or the year before but to date, no clubs have taken this up. Think I remember hearing M Duignan talking about it. From what I recall, clubs needed to be intermediate or junior clubs. Senior B clubs were not included. My recollection is that the clubs do not need to be from same parish and do not even need to be connected to each other geographically. I am not sure if it meant they couldnt play in own junior / inter championship but as far as I recall, i think that they could play both. If there was more than one team, I think it was suggested they would play in separate group to regular groups and one quarter final place or prelim Q-final place may have been kept for them. Again, not certain this got through but think it may have. Can anyone clarify?Anon44 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 21, 2025 11:11 pm The idea of joining clubs in the same parish/area is interesting. In Killeigh parish, you would be joining 3 clubs into 1 and in Daingean it would be 4 into 1, I might be mistaken on both. You might make a team capable of contesting a senior championship, but you will reduce playing numbers in those areas.
I’ve thought about it a good bit and at the minute there is no possible way to entertain the idea due to the current calendar, especially given our dual tradition.
Thinking off the top of my head, would there be a way to streamline Senior B down to Junior and run them off quicker, but delay the Senior A until they are done. Then, after the conclusions of those, run a Senior A championship with amalgamations. We will never be able to do the Kerry model, the hurling rightfully wouldn’t allow it.
I think it would lead to a brilliant Senior A, plus some of the best players in the county would get to play at a higher standard than with their individual clubs. Given the dominance of Tullamore at underage, which almost certainly won’t stop, it could be ominous enough for the senior championships future.
To be honest, it’ll never happen. There’s probably too many negatives which outweigh the positives, but it’s an interesting conversation all the same.
Scrap Q/Finals, and just play semi finals in hurling and football. That would reduce the number of games.Anon44 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 21, 2025 11:11 pm The idea of joining clubs in the same parish/area is interesting. In Killeigh parish, you would be joining 3 clubs into 1 and in Daingean it would be 4 into 1, I might be mistaken on both. You might make a team capable of contesting a senior championship, but you will reduce playing numbers in those areas.
I’ve thought about it a good bit and at the minute there is no possible way to entertain the idea due to the current calendar, especially given our dual tradition.
Thinking off the top of my head, would there be a way to streamline Senior B down to Junior and run them off quicker, but delay the Senior A until they are done. Then, after the conclusions of those, run a Senior A championship with amalgamations. We will never be able to do the Kerry model, the hurling rightfully wouldn’t allow it.
I think it would lead to a brilliant Senior A, plus some of the best players in the county would get to play at a higher standard than with their individual clubs. Given the dominance of Tullamore at underage, which almost certainly won’t stop, it could be ominous enough for the senior championships future.
To be honest, it’ll never happen. There’s probably too many negatives which outweigh the positives, but it’s an interesting conversation all the same.
Leading off with this: why on earth would Rhode, Tullamore, Shamrocks, Edenderry, Bracknagh, or any other senior club vote for less games? If you're getting rid of a meaningless round robin fixture that's one thing, but not getting rid of knockout rounds. No-one will want that.Scrap Q/Finals, and just play semi finals in hurling and football. That would reduce the number of games.
Lone Shark wrote: ↑Mon Aug 25, 2025 12:32 pm This discussion has been had many times, and the problem is that people keep seeing the upside, but putting their fingers in their ears and doing some version of "la la la I'm not listening" when someone tries to explain the downside. But this has become my specialist subject in GAA admin terms down the years (you'll see why below) so here we go again.
Leading off with this: why on earth would Rhode, Tullamore, Shamrocks, Edenderry, Bracknagh, or any other senior club vote for less games? If you're getting rid of a meaningless round robin fixture that's one thing, but not getting rid of knockout rounds. No-one will want that.Scrap Q/Finals, and just play semi finals in hurling and football. That would reduce the number of games.
Next, and more importantly, the only counties where these amalgamations work are where they are drawn from at least seven or eight clubs on average. Let's assume for a minute that we get rid of the senior B grade and call it what it is - intermediate - and you create a parish team from Doon, Erin Rovers and Ballycumber, and we'll even throw Tubber in there too, though they aren't technically in the same parish. Given that clubs like Ballycommon and Clonbullogue are senior in their own right, the Leamonaghan amalgamation would be as good as you'd get.
Fielding a combined team would absolutely cripple these clubs' first teams. Let's be honest about it, no serious player is going to play for Leamonaghan just to cobble together a team on the day and get walked on by a highly-drilled, cohesive and talented team from Tullamore or Edenderry. That's a surefire route to humiliation and playing yourself out of contention for a place on the Offaly senior panel, which is the complete opposite of what we're trying to achieve.
So this only works if Leamonaghan meet and train every bit as much as Tullamore do. This project only works if Leamonaghan are resourced and supported every bit as well as Tullamore are. I'm not saying that the four clubs have to fund a Stephen Rochford style appointment, but they have to be able to look over at what Ger Rafferty has assembled in Ferbane or what Paschal Kelleghan has put together in Rhode in terms of specialist coaches and they have to believe that they're being given every bit as much help to be as good as they can be, just like those teams.
And for all that to happen, the four composite clubs have to fund it, thus stripping them of the chance to be as good as they can be themselves, and they have to accept that two or three times a week, their players will be training with Leamonaghan, and so they'll (at best) be able to do one session with Doon, Ballycumber etc. Now I'm not privy to how training is going for those clubs in 2025, but my gut feeling is that if you took ten lads (for example) out of Ballycumber on any given night, what would be left would be a small group of honest but limited players that simply wouldn't be able to train at any sort of decent level. It would be a Junior B training session, effectively.
These four clubs (and their potential opponents in the IFC/JFC) will have to accept that every single championship weekend, their games will be played on a Sunday or Monday evening, and half a dozen of their players will already have had a hard hour of championship football played on Friday or Saturday. Add all this together, and the toll on the individual clubs is massive. The money alone is usually enough to make clubs baulk - I was on a fixtures committee here in Roscommon, where a group of North Roscommon clubs wanted something similar. The expressions on their faces when I said that this work in Kerry because clubs put up to €10,000 each into the Divisional team every year was pretty memorable, and needless to say they ran from that aspect.
So they made a half-hearted effort that wouldn't impede on the clubs too much, and they got this, which killed their enthusiasm stone dead:
https://www.shannonside.ie/sport/st-bri ... al-229994
That's why Kerry Divisional teams are (on average) pulled from around seven or eight clubs, Cork Divisional teams are often pulled from as many as 25 clubs, which is designed to share the load around. And the fixtures can be set to allow those Divisional teams to play at different times, which works because you have multiple divisions in each county - not realistic here in Offaly. And needless to say it's understood that if you play for East Kerry, or Muskerry, or St. Brendan's, you can't feasibly hurl as well - which is no issue if you want to put together a team from Walsh Island/Gracefield/Raheen/Ballinagar for example, but it instantly kills the idea of doing something similar anywhere west of the line from Cappincur to Killeigh (i.e., roughly two thirds of the county).
One final killer - to make this work, this project has to have continuity. So let's just say that a few years ago, there's a Walsh Island parish team, with Gracefield also in the mix. But if - like now - Bracknagh and Clonbullogue go Senior in their own right, then there isn't enough left for an amalgamation. That's a big reason why the Kenmare district team in Kerry struggles, they don't have lots of clubs.
The remedy for this is that every club in Offaly is part of a Division, and the Divisions are big enough that they can handle it if one or two clubs gain promotion. Sure, East Kerry won't be as good if Fossa get promoted and the Cliffords are no longer available for selection, but there are 13 clubs in the Division, so they'll always have a team.
And here's the kicker - one of those clubs is Dr. Crokes, who have won nine Munster club titles and two All-Irelands since they were last intermediate, all the way back in 1985. And every year, Dr. Crokes pay into the East Kerry Division, helping to fund the management and training of a team that in 2019 beat them in a county final.
That happens because Kerry people believe in the Divisional system and what it does for them, and it is firmly established in the county's GAA tradition and culture. But to go from scratch right now and try to sell to Rhode GAA and Edenderry GAA the idea that we're going to create a North Offaly Division comprising the clubs from those parishes along with maybe Daingean parish as well, and that Rhode and Edenderry would have to pay to fund a divisional team that in all likelihood they will never have players play for and that might be the one to knock them out of the Offaly SFC some year soon, that strikes me as ambitious.
I'll push it further. If you could make the executive and membership of those clubs believe in that concept, then I hope you work in sales for a living, because you could sell anything to anyone.
Also the setting up of new clubs will have to be considered. Ireland is changing drastically - Rural Ireland is being decimated - think about it for a second - the population of Offaly is rising year on year not reducing yet we are talking about a necessary future action to amalgamate clubs to keep our games going. In the past you had natural splintering of clubs with rows etc but now you generally don't have these for a no. of reasons - mainly finance and also the rule book has been vastly expanded to take care of all eventualities. Hard decisions are going to have to be made.
jimbob17 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 27, 2025 11:43 pm Interesting points Lone Shark. Based on above, and reference to Kerry structure, this is what I'd love to see.
Two combined teams enter senior A championship - on knockout basis.
They play each other on a home / away basis alternating year on year. Each team is made up of players from Junior and Intermediate teams but NOT Senior B or Senior A teams.
Each team is restricted to 8 training sessions pre first round and one per week thereafter. They enter at Prelim Q-final stage against each other with winner qualifying for one q final spot kept for them in Senior A championship. So essentially it is one knockout game and winner goes to a q-final meaning the time and commitment to it is minimised so as not to inconvenience clubs involved.
The teams as follows - excuse if I leave out anyone but you'll get general idea - based around principal of being East or West of a hypothetical North to South divide running through Tullamore.
East Offaly - Ballyfore, Clonmore Harps, St Brigids, Walsh Island, Kilclonfert, Raheen, Clodiagh Gaels,
West Offaly - Shannonbridge, Doon, Erin Rovers, KK, Birr, St Rynaghs, Lusmagh, Kinnity, Ballyskenagh among others etc
One team plays in the Offaly home strip while the other plays in the white away jersey. There would be huge honour for lads in making these teams if it were run this way and I genuinely think it would be someting that lads from these inter and junior clubs would aim for. I also think there would be a few in South and West Offaly that could get exposure to good level of football that may help Offaly potentially. There are lads down there that might only love to have the chance to play the big ball at a good level - this would afford that opportunity.
On a given year, where teams are relegated from senior B, East Offaly may also include likes of Gracefield, Daingean, Cappincur, Ballinagar etc while likes of Clara, Durrow, Ballycumber, Tubber etc, or anyone else that side would be added to West Offaly - in a swap with a team promoted to Senior B, having won the intermediate championship the previous year.
There have always been players from some of these clubs that have been very strong underage players but fell away and never played co senior because they were never showcased at club senior level. Lots of co minors from 2024 and 2025 come from these clubs. I think it would be novel, exciting, promote football in these areas and also allow players to play in own club championship at own grade.
A nominal sum of around 500 - 1000 euro per year from each participating club would be enough to cover cost of physio / coach manager etc if the model only allowed for a certain number of training sessions - and that this is policed by county board. If this training cap is not honoured then, the individual clubs would report upwards to co board and team would be excluded the following year as a disincentive. If required, the co board could be involved in the selection of the coaching teams for each team to ensure that these rules are not broken.
I think players and supporters would be massively enthused by such a concept and it could bring real energy to senior championship....
Maybe it is a hair-brained idealistic idea that would only be scoffed at, but i'd love to see it tried.....