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With the way fitness etc. is gone, I just thought I'd open up a pretty common debate here and see what people think.

Basically, is it time for 13 a side in Gaelic Games? Obviously the current situation is more of an issue in Gaelic Football than in hurling, but whether down to fitness or whatever, the modern day GAA pitch can get very crowded. In football in particular it has become de rigeur to pull at least one forward back as a third midfielder or as a covering back in front of the full back line. While there's nothing in particular wrong with that, I think that in order to do that you should have to make a real sacrifice elsewhere. To my mind pulling out one of your inside line is not a sacrifice, because operating with two players in there just gives your best players more space.

If we look at the All Ireland winners in recent years, nearly all of them operated with a two man inside line - Kerry being the only real exception, traditionalists that they are.

To me the main advantages to reducing numbers to 13 a side are:

(1) Less scrummaging for possession around the middle of the field.

(2) A lot easier for small clubs to be competitive, and for bigger clubs to have sufficient numbers to field an extra side.

(3) Would lead to a new round of tactical innovation, which in recent years has become a contest to see who could get the most men back behind the ball quickest.

(4) Extra space would encourage players to play the ball into it and see a return to the day when there was a contest for the ball, (or at least a chase!) as opposed to now where we see possession being treasured and nothing but short passing in a basketball/rugby league fashion.

What say you?

for this match against the roscommon lads, i'd be in favour of 17 or 21 a side - a good old fashioned game of caid!

I agree overall that 13 a side is the way to go. A couple of other points to LS;

1. May lead to more goals in hurling especially - in the last couple of years, there is a drought where goals are concerned in the championship

2. One drawback will be even more emphasis on fitness as opposed to on technique.

Mighty Pair O' Hands wrote: 2. One drawback will be even more emphasis on fitness as opposed to on technique.

Aye, there's the rub...for in that idea lies a reverb...for sure, 13 would make space but would lead to an athletic fitness oreintated game, far removed from what I see as gaelic football.

Reading at the weekend, 2 ideas were mentioned...
1>An 'offside' rule of sorts, where say 6 players have to be in the opponents half at all times...this would cut out the blanket defence of puke football.

2>Mandatory use of a kick pass directly after a hand pass..cut out the kerry/kildare/armagh/tyrone/galway way of throwing the ball around the defence,..make them play it out quicker.

I don't know if you'd necessarily have to be fitter - you would have to cover a lot of yards, but on the other hand running into 50 yards of open space is a lot easier than running around in circles and taking shoulders in the space of twenty yards. It would possibly be a bit tougher for the 43 year old 17 stone guy who gets lobbed in at full forward to survive, but I'm not sure that's such a bad thing.

As for offside - who would monitor such a thing? - plus it eliminates fast breaks, and ensures we'd never see fast young forwards getting into space.

The kick pass thing could be an option all right - however I wouldn't rule out that people would just become masters of the 3 yard kick pass.

I played 13 a side in America for a few years, and it was great. A very open inside line for forwards to move into, and I as a corner forward cleaned up.

The thing about it is that in America, they played by the spirit of it, i.e. no Full back or Full forward allowed. In the GAA here, especially inter county I can see teams deploying sweepers in the full back position, to negate the extra room. People who want to be negative in their tactics will always find a way.

I don't particularly see that as a problem. At least then, if someone chooses to withdraw a player, they're having to make a real sacrifice elsewhere on the field when it's thirteen players. Now if a team wants to play with a sweeper in behind the half backs or a third midfielder, they don't really feel the loss.

If you're playing thirteen a side, who are you going to pull back to play the third full back? Teams have to sacrifice a half forward then, which means that they are inviting trouble on to themselves - as I said, I reckon it creates a whole new set of tactical possibilities.

Well, Lone Shark.

If I want to play a half forward back in the full back line, and leave a 4 man forward line (which is not unlike what happens at the moment), then the opposition can either play the extra forward, which leaves 6 forwards v 6 backs, and 4 v 4, or else deploys him in as a mirror image, in which case it's 6 v 5 and 5 v 4 at either end. I suppose they could also withdraw their own half forward and have 6 v 4 at both ends

Either way, the current preoccupation with crowding your defence, and hitting lads on the break would continue in the negative teams, and only the fact that the pitch will seem bigger, IF the other team decide to follow you, would be different.

I know what you're saying and it is not a bad idea, but I feel there is still enough space on a GAA pitch with 15 v 15 if the teams try to play properly and with itelligent passing at the right time. I think that if people want to reduce the game to one of counter attacking, swarm defence and hand passing they will do it. It's easier to be hard to beat, than to be truly creative.

i think 13 aside would be crap.

it would be lots of little fast shortarses running with their head down and their legs going cartoon style, and lads running after them.

turk wrote: it would be lots of little fast shortarses running with their head down and their legs going cartoon style

I can see it.....we've got a couple in our team.....