Well lads, whats our position on the family. Seems like the GAA ae lining up to endorse them and blame the meedja?
Personally, would say they provided a lot of jobs, but they need to face up to the fact that they have done some serious wrongs since they got into difficulty. I would like to see Seanie Fitz, Drumm, Fingleton and the rest of the hierarchy face the rogour of the law.
I have to say I have some sympathy with people marching to show Quinn their gratitude for what he did for the area, but he needs to face up to reality, and the "true story" that he talks about is the reality that he siphoned off assets which could have been used pay back their debts. Basically these guys on the march are backing a man who was ensuring that we will all have to pay extra taxes or lose services in order to pay back what he has owed.
It is no surprise to a degree that it was GAA & Clergy supporting them, the GAA could well be described as a mafia, how many under the counter payments have been made in the GAA?
-Payments to managers county & club
-Pyramid schemes in the GAA
-Club gate receipts not returned, pocketed by clubs
-All Ireland tickets not goin to the ordinary fan
-Backhanders for players to play with certain clubsAnd as for the clergy and the church, nuff said.The cheek of Quinn to say that the support represented the thoughts of rural Ireland.
The Quinns need to face up to reality, and I would like to see Sean Quinn encouraged to do this and when this is done and also the rest of the family we can start to look forward.
We need to see a real drive now to pursue some of the other protaganists involved in the great financial scams that have taken place over the last few years.
Whole thing has the makings of a series on telly, "Mr Quinn, take your medicine Man!!"
I
The Quinns
Re: The Quinns
“The Quinn family are great employers in the North West”
Quinn Insurance has proven to be a loss making enterprise for arguably its entire trading history.
Instead of its income from annual policy premiums being applied to the minimum capital threshold required by all insurance companies to cover a doomsday claim event (flood deluge etc) , Sean Quinn as CEO oversaw the redirection of this income to other companies in the North West and his family’s global investments.
2010 - The Financial Regulator puts Quinn Insurance into receivership / administration.
Que outcry from the North West.
2012 –Government levy on private health insurance to fund the receivership / administration of Quinn Insurance to be passed to all ROI citizens taking private health polices estimated to last for the remainder of this decade and beyond.
Net Result : The taxpayer has effectively subsidised employment in Quinn’s businesses the North West.
No Outcry from the North West.
2012 – Members of the Quinn family in open contempt of court regarding hiding of assets entitled to the Irish taxpayer. SQ Jnr Jailed.
Que outcry from the North West.
What would happen if every commercial person who owed money to a third party in the world right now just woke up in the morning and decided they would not pay a debt incurred due to a business decision and then put all of their assets beyond the reach of those legitimately entitled to a claim on them?
“The system” as we know it (which runs shops, service providers, banks, churches, charitable institutions, hospitals, food producing companies) would utterly implode and collapse.
Where would we be then?
Anarchy.
What would the people of Ballyconnell, Mickey Harte, Sean Boylan and Colm O’Rourke do then?
Do the people of Ballyconnell and its serrouds revert to the barter system like in the tiome of the Gaelic cheiftans?
How would Target and all Tyrones commercial sponsors fund Mickey Harte and his teams expenses for the 2013 championship?
Who would buy Sean Boylans potions so as to ensure fifth generation of Boylan herbalists in Dunboyne?
Who would pay O’ Rourkes principal fees and pension in Pats Navan (or his NIB loan repayments http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 51049.html ) ?
What has create this sense of entitlement in the Quinn family?
The Quinn family will have every opportunity to put forward their case regarding the events leading up to their collective commercial decision to buy up a stake in Anglo Irish Bank though the purchase of Contracts for Difference but this will , in the case of any functioning social democratic state, rank secondary to the primary need of the state to act in its best interests to secure the sovereign assets.
Quinn Insurance has proven to be a loss making enterprise for arguably its entire trading history.
Instead of its income from annual policy premiums being applied to the minimum capital threshold required by all insurance companies to cover a doomsday claim event (flood deluge etc) , Sean Quinn as CEO oversaw the redirection of this income to other companies in the North West and his family’s global investments.
2010 - The Financial Regulator puts Quinn Insurance into receivership / administration.
Que outcry from the North West.
2012 –Government levy on private health insurance to fund the receivership / administration of Quinn Insurance to be passed to all ROI citizens taking private health polices estimated to last for the remainder of this decade and beyond.
Net Result : The taxpayer has effectively subsidised employment in Quinn’s businesses the North West.
No Outcry from the North West.
2012 – Members of the Quinn family in open contempt of court regarding hiding of assets entitled to the Irish taxpayer. SQ Jnr Jailed.
Que outcry from the North West.
What would happen if every commercial person who owed money to a third party in the world right now just woke up in the morning and decided they would not pay a debt incurred due to a business decision and then put all of their assets beyond the reach of those legitimately entitled to a claim on them?
“The system” as we know it (which runs shops, service providers, banks, churches, charitable institutions, hospitals, food producing companies) would utterly implode and collapse.
Where would we be then?
Anarchy.
What would the people of Ballyconnell, Mickey Harte, Sean Boylan and Colm O’Rourke do then?
Do the people of Ballyconnell and its serrouds revert to the barter system like in the tiome of the Gaelic cheiftans?
How would Target and all Tyrones commercial sponsors fund Mickey Harte and his teams expenses for the 2013 championship?
Who would buy Sean Boylans potions so as to ensure fifth generation of Boylan herbalists in Dunboyne?
Who would pay O’ Rourkes principal fees and pension in Pats Navan (or his NIB loan repayments http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 51049.html ) ?
What has create this sense of entitlement in the Quinn family?
The Quinn family will have every opportunity to put forward their case regarding the events leading up to their collective commercial decision to buy up a stake in Anglo Irish Bank though the purchase of Contracts for Difference but this will , in the case of any functioning social democratic state, rank secondary to the primary need of the state to act in its best interests to secure the sovereign assets.
-
Plain of the Herbs
- All Star
- Posts: 3701
- Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:47 pm
- Club: Lusmagh
Re: The Quinns
Where have 'the GAA' endorsed the Quinn carry-on? I haven't seen any statement from Croke Park supporting the Quinn empire. To my knowledge neither Liam O'Neill or Páraic Duffy have spoken on the issue.
Perhaps the lemmings in the media might state something like - teachers and herbalists support the Quinns - instead.
Perhaps the lemmings in the media might state something like - teachers and herbalists support the Quinns - instead.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
"Offaly's hurling is exact and abrasive: full of assurance on the ball, devoid of fumbling and slicing and sod-busting". Kevin Cashman RIP (September 1994).
"Offaly's hurling is exact and abrasive: full of assurance on the ball, devoid of fumbling and slicing and sod-busting". Kevin Cashman RIP (September 1994).
Re: The Quinns
POTH you’re entirely right in what you say.
However there is a real risk that if persons of a high profile within the GAA people continue to publically backing Quinn (if not overtly backing, conveying a level of sympathy in their comments that man on the street would reasonably deduce as being condoning of their conduct as in the case of Sean Kelly) it could result in significant damage to the image of the GAA.
If the GAA decides to make no comment about this (as they are perfectly entitled to do as they are a sporting organisation) , they run the risk of being dragged into the mire which Sean Quinn and his family have created for themselves by purchasing CFDs in Anglo Irish Bank.
The GAA has been here before. Amongst other issues, its silence on GAA clubs in the North naming clubs and competitions after Provos, or Casement Park being used to commemorate the 1981 Hunger Strikers but I feel this is a bit different.
While there would be a good groundswell of people within the GAA who would identify with the Quinn family on a … shall we say …. an ideological level, there would also be a good volume of folk who would find their behaviour repugnant. People who pay their dues, who wouldn’t dream of committing contempt of court and who wouldn’t be able to draw six figure sums from companies in Russia.
In my own experience, and I’m generalising here, that would constitute the majority of ordinary members within the GAA.
However there is a real risk that if persons of a high profile within the GAA people continue to publically backing Quinn (if not overtly backing, conveying a level of sympathy in their comments that man on the street would reasonably deduce as being condoning of their conduct as in the case of Sean Kelly) it could result in significant damage to the image of the GAA.
If the GAA decides to make no comment about this (as they are perfectly entitled to do as they are a sporting organisation) , they run the risk of being dragged into the mire which Sean Quinn and his family have created for themselves by purchasing CFDs in Anglo Irish Bank.
The GAA has been here before. Amongst other issues, its silence on GAA clubs in the North naming clubs and competitions after Provos, or Casement Park being used to commemorate the 1981 Hunger Strikers but I feel this is a bit different.
While there would be a good groundswell of people within the GAA who would identify with the Quinn family on a … shall we say …. an ideological level, there would also be a good volume of folk who would find their behaviour repugnant. People who pay their dues, who wouldn’t dream of committing contempt of court and who wouldn’t be able to draw six figure sums from companies in Russia.
In my own experience, and I’m generalising here, that would constitute the majority of ordinary members within the GAA.
Re: The Quinns
I should add that Sean Quinns daughters should never have been placed in a position where they would have their weekly expenditure needs put on record in the High Court like the cost of a new baby , medical expenses, groceries in Tesco and Spar, petrol and caring for dogs etc.
Who of us would wish to be in that position and who of us would not sympathise on a personal level with folk in this position?
The fact remains that they would not have been in this position has they not individually, as adults, with access to the best legal and financial advice that money can buy put pen to paper and bought contracts for differences in Anglo Irish Bank.
Good luck to them in proving fraud against Anglo – and I genuinely mean that.
Who of us would wish to be in that position and who of us would not sympathise on a personal level with folk in this position?
The fact remains that they would not have been in this position has they not individually, as adults, with access to the best legal and financial advice that money can buy put pen to paper and bought contracts for differences in Anglo Irish Bank.
Good luck to them in proving fraud against Anglo – and I genuinely mean that.
-
Plain of the Herbs
- All Star
- Posts: 3701
- Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:47 pm
- Club: Lusmagh
Re: The Quinns
It's like when someone convicted of the most gruesome crimes one could commit against another person being described as a "former Altar boy".
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
"Offaly's hurling is exact and abrasive: full of assurance on the ball, devoid of fumbling and slicing and sod-busting". Kevin Cashman RIP (September 1994).
"Offaly's hurling is exact and abrasive: full of assurance on the ball, devoid of fumbling and slicing and sod-busting". Kevin Cashman RIP (September 1994).
Re: Paul Rouse article on the Quinns
Fantastic article by our own Paul Rouse in todays Irish Times dealing the Quinns campaign of public protest and its effect on the reputation of the GAA.
Nail on the head job.
DISHONEST QUINN AGENDA WELL WIDE OF GAA ETHOS
MARK DUNCAN and PAUL ROUSE
Wed, Aug 01, 2012
OPINION: Seán Quinn has made clear that his family’s interests come before those of the State or the GAA’s reputation
THE LINE-UP of GAA greats was certainly impressive – Joe Kernan, Mickey Harte, Seán Boylan, Colm O’Rourke, all decent men. All ex-players or managers with All-Ireland winning teams, all on the one platform and all, apparently, with a single, shared message: Seán Quinn and his family had been treated abominably by the former Anglo-Irish Bank and the institutions of the State.
They were victims, deserving of both the support of their fellow GAA members and a break from the authorities.
Among an estimated attendance of up to 4,000 Quinn family supporters in Ballyconnell on Sunday night, the GAA community was being summoned in defence of one of its own. As for Seán Quinn, the resolute and complete backing of GAA people is something he clearly takes for granted.
Addressing the large crowd, his voice quivering with emotion, Ireland’s former richest man expressed his gratitude to the Fermanagh and Cavan GAA and, no less, the “whole GAA country”.
The repeated invocation of the GAA in support of the Quinn family interest will surely be shocking to many of its members. There will be amazement that the very act of GAA membership should be construed as implying approval of actions that a High Court judge deemed “as far removed from the concept of honour and respectability as can be”.
One might have thought that such a damning finding might have given some Quinn supporters, including those within the GAA, pause for deeper reflection. Not so, it seems. Subsequent to this judgment, and the order jailing Seán Quinn jnr and his cousin Peter – still at large – for contempt of court, the Teemore Shamrocks Gaelic Football Club in Fermanagh published a statement on its website decrying the “injustice inflicted on the Quinn Family” and urging their “fellow Gaels” to unite in opposition to the outrages being perpetrated against them.
The Teemore Shamrocks club is, of course, situated in that belt of Border counties where allegiance to the Quinn family appears, at times, to be almost religious in nature. It is an allegiance built on hard work and a business acumen that gave rise to a group of successful companies and which delivered much-needed employment to a region that might otherwise have succumbed to decay.
It is allegiance also derived from a generosity to local units of the GAA, arguably the dominant social organisation in many of the communities where he based his businesses.
Through the provision of employment and patronage, Quinn built a phenomenally powerful network of friends and allies and has, without question, contributed much to the economic and social development of the Border territory. Quinn’s past achievements are therefore not in doubt, nor is his passion for, or commitment to, the GAA. But that does not excuse the recent actions of the Quinn family or the efforts of his supporters to align his interests with the ethos of the GAA.
The Quinn business empire took four decades to build and less than four years to collapse. There is patently nothing to rejoice in its demise – this is a familial, local and national tragedy. However, there is equally nothing to defend in the manner in which Quinn and his family have handled their unravelling fortunes.
Evidence of the secreting of assets, by means remarkable for their “dishonesty and deviousness”, according to High Court judge Peter Kelly, is not contested. And the figures are staggering: the international property portfolio to which the Quinns are clinging is worth some €500 million.
It is difficult to envisage how such a squirrelling of private assets and wealth – in defiance of court orders – is compatible with the values of an association whose unique place in Irish life has been built on ideas of service, community and the redistribution of resources from top to bottom, from the centre to the periphery.
Yet, according to former Meath footballer and RTÉ pundit Colm O’Rourke, the GAA tradition of “solidarity” is one that should be readily and unquestionably extended to the Quinns. Fine Gael MEP and former GAA president Seán Kelly clearly agrees.
Interviewed on Radio Kerry, he remarked on how it was “part of the ethos” of the GAA to get behind a “decent family”. The GAA, he added, “stand by our own”.
Loyalty to friends in difficulty is, of course, an admirable trait. But the argument that the Quinns are GAA people, have made an enormous contribution to the GAA and are therefore deserving of the GAA community’s uncritical and unqualified support is hardly tenable.
Can you imagine the reaction were the rugby fraternity to take to the streets or issue statements in support of the disgraced banker Seánie FitzPatrick, a former player and keen supporter of the game? Or if the soccer community were to publicly rally in defence of TD and well-known champion of the game Mick Wallace, in the wake of his admission that he deliberately withheld VAT from the Revenue Commissioners?
Individuals are entitled, of course, to support any cause they wish. But what is striking about the reported contributions of both those GAA personalities at the Ballyconnell rally and the former GAA president is the impression created that support for the Quinns is consistent with carefully nurtured GAA values – that it was, in fact, an “expression” of the GAA’s great strength.
The GAA does indeed have a proud tradition of looking after its own, of showing solidarity with those in need. It is everywhere evident among GAA communities at home and abroad – in the comfort blanket it throws around members and their families at times of bereavement and tragedy and in the helping hand it has extended, for more than a century, to emigrants arriving isolated in far-flung countries.
Do the current circumstances of the Quinns, as outlined in the courts, really merit the same type of consideration? Ultimately, the problem with Quinn is not that he took a risk and lost. Many ordinary homeowners and small business people did likewise. No, the problem with Quinn is the calculated and complex efforts to put assets beyond the reach of his creditors – in this case, the State – to feather the nests of none but his family.
In the end, it will be up to the courts to decide the merits of the Quinn case against the former Anglo Irish Bank.
But in the manner in which he has conducted his campaign of public protest, as much as his dealings with the Irish courts, Quinn has demonstrated that there is nothing that is subordinate to the interests of his own family. Not the citizens of this State – and not the reputation of the GAA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Duncan and Paul Rouse are co-authors (with Mike Cronin) of The GAA: A People’s History (2009). Their most recent book, Handling Change: A History of the Irish Bank Officials Association, was published this year.
Nail on the head job.
DISHONEST QUINN AGENDA WELL WIDE OF GAA ETHOS
MARK DUNCAN and PAUL ROUSE
Wed, Aug 01, 2012
OPINION: Seán Quinn has made clear that his family’s interests come before those of the State or the GAA’s reputation
THE LINE-UP of GAA greats was certainly impressive – Joe Kernan, Mickey Harte, Seán Boylan, Colm O’Rourke, all decent men. All ex-players or managers with All-Ireland winning teams, all on the one platform and all, apparently, with a single, shared message: Seán Quinn and his family had been treated abominably by the former Anglo-Irish Bank and the institutions of the State.
They were victims, deserving of both the support of their fellow GAA members and a break from the authorities.
Among an estimated attendance of up to 4,000 Quinn family supporters in Ballyconnell on Sunday night, the GAA community was being summoned in defence of one of its own. As for Seán Quinn, the resolute and complete backing of GAA people is something he clearly takes for granted.
Addressing the large crowd, his voice quivering with emotion, Ireland’s former richest man expressed his gratitude to the Fermanagh and Cavan GAA and, no less, the “whole GAA country”.
The repeated invocation of the GAA in support of the Quinn family interest will surely be shocking to many of its members. There will be amazement that the very act of GAA membership should be construed as implying approval of actions that a High Court judge deemed “as far removed from the concept of honour and respectability as can be”.
One might have thought that such a damning finding might have given some Quinn supporters, including those within the GAA, pause for deeper reflection. Not so, it seems. Subsequent to this judgment, and the order jailing Seán Quinn jnr and his cousin Peter – still at large – for contempt of court, the Teemore Shamrocks Gaelic Football Club in Fermanagh published a statement on its website decrying the “injustice inflicted on the Quinn Family” and urging their “fellow Gaels” to unite in opposition to the outrages being perpetrated against them.
The Teemore Shamrocks club is, of course, situated in that belt of Border counties where allegiance to the Quinn family appears, at times, to be almost religious in nature. It is an allegiance built on hard work and a business acumen that gave rise to a group of successful companies and which delivered much-needed employment to a region that might otherwise have succumbed to decay.
It is allegiance also derived from a generosity to local units of the GAA, arguably the dominant social organisation in many of the communities where he based his businesses.
Through the provision of employment and patronage, Quinn built a phenomenally powerful network of friends and allies and has, without question, contributed much to the economic and social development of the Border territory. Quinn’s past achievements are therefore not in doubt, nor is his passion for, or commitment to, the GAA. But that does not excuse the recent actions of the Quinn family or the efforts of his supporters to align his interests with the ethos of the GAA.
The Quinn business empire took four decades to build and less than four years to collapse. There is patently nothing to rejoice in its demise – this is a familial, local and national tragedy. However, there is equally nothing to defend in the manner in which Quinn and his family have handled their unravelling fortunes.
Evidence of the secreting of assets, by means remarkable for their “dishonesty and deviousness”, according to High Court judge Peter Kelly, is not contested. And the figures are staggering: the international property portfolio to which the Quinns are clinging is worth some €500 million.
It is difficult to envisage how such a squirrelling of private assets and wealth – in defiance of court orders – is compatible with the values of an association whose unique place in Irish life has been built on ideas of service, community and the redistribution of resources from top to bottom, from the centre to the periphery.
Yet, according to former Meath footballer and RTÉ pundit Colm O’Rourke, the GAA tradition of “solidarity” is one that should be readily and unquestionably extended to the Quinns. Fine Gael MEP and former GAA president Seán Kelly clearly agrees.
Interviewed on Radio Kerry, he remarked on how it was “part of the ethos” of the GAA to get behind a “decent family”. The GAA, he added, “stand by our own”.
Loyalty to friends in difficulty is, of course, an admirable trait. But the argument that the Quinns are GAA people, have made an enormous contribution to the GAA and are therefore deserving of the GAA community’s uncritical and unqualified support is hardly tenable.
Can you imagine the reaction were the rugby fraternity to take to the streets or issue statements in support of the disgraced banker Seánie FitzPatrick, a former player and keen supporter of the game? Or if the soccer community were to publicly rally in defence of TD and well-known champion of the game Mick Wallace, in the wake of his admission that he deliberately withheld VAT from the Revenue Commissioners?
Individuals are entitled, of course, to support any cause they wish. But what is striking about the reported contributions of both those GAA personalities at the Ballyconnell rally and the former GAA president is the impression created that support for the Quinns is consistent with carefully nurtured GAA values – that it was, in fact, an “expression” of the GAA’s great strength.
The GAA does indeed have a proud tradition of looking after its own, of showing solidarity with those in need. It is everywhere evident among GAA communities at home and abroad – in the comfort blanket it throws around members and their families at times of bereavement and tragedy and in the helping hand it has extended, for more than a century, to emigrants arriving isolated in far-flung countries.
Do the current circumstances of the Quinns, as outlined in the courts, really merit the same type of consideration? Ultimately, the problem with Quinn is not that he took a risk and lost. Many ordinary homeowners and small business people did likewise. No, the problem with Quinn is the calculated and complex efforts to put assets beyond the reach of his creditors – in this case, the State – to feather the nests of none but his family.
In the end, it will be up to the courts to decide the merits of the Quinn case against the former Anglo Irish Bank.
But in the manner in which he has conducted his campaign of public protest, as much as his dealings with the Irish courts, Quinn has demonstrated that there is nothing that is subordinate to the interests of his own family. Not the citizens of this State – and not the reputation of the GAA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Duncan and Paul Rouse are co-authors (with Mike Cronin) of The GAA: A People’s History (2009). Their most recent book, Handling Change: A History of the Irish Bank Officials Association, was published this year.