Offaly v Dublin - NHL Division 1 - 14/03/2010

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Best get the ball rolling on this one.

No doubt about it, this is one important game. Dublin come to Tullamore as deserving favourites on the back of an impressive victory againsty Tipperary following their opening weekend capitulation against Waterford. Offaly meanwhile did exaclty what was expected of them in the opening rounds, loosing handsomly in both without at any stage looking like they were going to win. Given how Dublin hurling has been on the rise and rise over the last number of years while at best Offaly have stagnated (at a low level), Sunday will be an intersting indictaor of where both teams lie. Two counties at an intersection perhaps, each going a different way? Only time will tell.

The Offaly hurling team has been in a severe state of flux recently. One poster likened this to the current state of the Offaly footballers where no two people seem capable of agreeing on who the starting 15 should be never mind where they should play! This is a slightly accurate if mostly unfair criticism. The situation regarding the footballers is much worse and has persisted for a number of years now. The hurlers by contrast didn't experiment at all in the forwards from Championship 2008 until League 2010. How many times did we complain last year about the same six starting time and time again when a good 4 of them should have dropped? Given how we are only two meaningful games into 2010 it is a bit fanciful to be complaining about experimenting, especially when it occurs in the league. As opposed to League 2009, we must make the most of the opportuinity to see how good and how bad certain players are. That said it's a difficult balance for the management as staying in Division 1 is very important for Offaly.

And what of the team itself? Ah the forwards, the forwards. Be it for a lack of raw scoring ability or an inability to stop opposing backs launching ball after ball upon our own defence, it has been along time since Offaly had a well functioning forward line. Many have been tried, few have impressed and it would appear that the same options aren't available in the county for this sector of the field as there is in defence where we seem to have an abundance of corner and wing backs many of whom are of a similar level. That said, not counting injuries I'd like to see something like this:

Mullins,
Franks (if fit), Kenny, Egan/Wynne,
Rigney, Cleary, Del,
Hanniffy, Hayden (or wing forward),
Molloy, Mahon, Horan (Robbing Peter to pay Paul here, he's one of our best backs, but given how stuck we are up front I'd like to see him tried here, if it doesn't work then at least we know)
Dooley, Bergin, AN OTHER

That's by no means a cast iron opinion, I'm open to discussion on a number of positons but it's a general indication of what 15 I'd like to see start. Murphy can consider himself unlucky as I felt he was unfairly taken off against K/K. This wouldn't be a bad place to give him another go.

Any opinions?

[Bord na Mona man]

Throw Rory Hanniffy into the full forward line with Dooley and Bergin.
We at least have a few credible options at midfield and half forward.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Thumbs down to that.

Anyway, remember this?

''I always prefer to see Rory Hanniffy at midfield. He is very fast and has great wrists. An ideal man to keep keep the ball moving into the forwards. Rise and whip, whoosh it on, pick and go...''

What's caused the turnabout?

[Bord na Mona man]

Thumbs down to that.

Anyway, remember this?

''I always prefer to see Rory Hanniffy at midfield. He is very fast and has great wrists. An ideal man to keep keep the ball moving into the forwards. Rise and whip, whoosh it on, pick and go...''

What's caused the turnabout?

Yep, midfield would be his best position...however...the full forward line options are fairly chronic.

At least in other areas like MF and HF you can play musical chairs with players you have to hand.
You have the 2 Bradys, Dylan Hayden, Brendan Murphy, Conor Mahon, Diarmuid Horan, Derek Molloy, Brian Carroll and Ger Healion who can play in certain jersies numbered from 8 to 12 (with varying degrees of success). Even David Franks and Paul Cleary have popped up in this area.

How many Offaly players can reliably take their score when in the green zone though? The list is sadly very short.
The Hanniffy one is a hunch of course. He has serious pace, hurling ability and good shooting too.
It wouldn't work if he didn't manage to think, move and react like an inside forward should. Or if the first tactical move in every crisis was to bring him outfield.

I'd chance it.

[bracknaghboy]

At least in other areas like MF and HF you can play musical chairs with players you have to hand.

Too many rounds of musical chairs these last few years has been one of our biggest problems in my opinion! We need to bite the bullet and go for a settled lineup. Constant rotation of players is the cowards way out!!!

[Plain of the Herbs]

An excellent summary of the situation by GDFTP. Well done.

On balance, we’d have settled for a -19 goal difference at this stage. Despite the knee jerk reactions here and elsewhere, now the league will begin in earnest for Offaly.

Just a few further points. The point of the relative progress of both counties is well made. Central to this will be the respective styles of the two sides.

There’s Dublin’s modern style which Offaly can’t cope with as against Offaly’s style of ‘hit it at them and hope to get it back’. Dublin have been beating Offaly the exact same way at underage level for the last half-dozen years so whatever Dublin bring to OCP, they won’t be springing any surprises. They must be a coach’s dream to work with though – already fit, athletic and are well geared to play a modern brand of hurling.

If Liam Rushe will be a handful, just look at Peter Kelly. Tall and rangy, scored the point of the year at the Church end of Parnell Park against Tipperary. The media herd make much of Cork’s twin towers (neither of which has had sustained exposure to hurling), but Rushe and Kelly on each flank of the attack are worthy of that attention and will be a real worry for Offaly. That will be a big test for Derek Morkan and Diarmuid Horan, if they hurl at 5 and 7.

Tomás Brady, John McCaffrey, Alan McCrabbe, Ronan Fallon are all hurlers who are well used to performing against the Offaly lads, and winning. They will be brimful of belief and will see Sunday as a chance to lay down a marker and make further progress.

James Rigney might be the man to pick up McCrabbe around the middle.

While Offaly will remain stubbornly resolute to playing in their own traditional style, they absolutely must cope with Dublin’s style by getting to the ball first and disrupt Dublin by competing in the air. Do that and they will stop Dublin from getting their passing moves to flow. Fail and it could be a long afternoon in OCP.

[leinsterman]

its a game we have to win can't see us beating galway,tipp,or waterford, yes the forward line seems to be the problem with offaly. the only thing in their favour is
that they won't be up again as good as backline as cork's or kk this sunday. we seem to
have enough back's so we have to put joe bergin in centre or fullforward and leave him there. this is the team i would play on sunday some player's are still out hurt.
1.B.mullins
2.D.franks
3.D.kenny
4.M.verney
5.D.horan
6.P.cleary
7.D.morkan
8.J.rigney
9.D.hayden
10.R.hanniffy
11.J.bergin
12.C.mahon
13.D.molloy
14.G.healion
15.S.dooley
we can bring carroll,parlon,curram's into the forward's if thing's are not going well
we have a good record against the dub's in tullamore i think we can do it.
waterford gave them a big beating in the first round offaly should go at them from
the start, i think this team is due a big 70 minute's hope its on sunday.

[black and red exile]

Leinsterman your selection looks fairly on the ball. I think we are all in agreement that Bergin should be in a central position, either centre or full forward, I would probably swap Rigney and Horan, I honestly think Rigney's best position is half back and should be left there and in my opinion Rory should be left at midfield with Hayden going in at wing forward but then again it's all opinion and the only opinion that matters is Joe Dooley's.
We have got to win this one full stop, we can't just hope that Limerick fall to everyone and lose every game to finish below us, the away games to Waterford and Galway look daunting and the home game with Tipp looks a step too far also. It's vitally important these players are not relegated this year going into the championship, going back to division 2 would kill whatever interest that is there in the county once and for all. Dublin are a bit in and out, they turned on the style against tipp after getting a hiding from Waterford's second team in Walsh Park so they are certainly nothing to write home about. 2 points before the Galway game on Sat week are a must.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Rushe, McCrabbe and Dotsy are naturally the danger men for me.

Rushe has bags of talent in my view and while I can't be certain, I believe Dublin have been playing him in the half forward line of late. From an Offaly point of view this would probably be more welcome than having him in full forward where he is liable to do most damage.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Too many rounds of musical chairs these last few years has been one of our biggest problems in my opinion! We need to bite the bullet and go for a settled lineup. Constant rotation of players is the cowards way out!!!

Pull easy.
Offaly flogged the same non-performing horses during all of last years championship, particularly in the forwards. Remember the second half performance in the league final last year when we scored 1 point from play? And after such abysmal offensive play what did we do only start the same six against Wexford four weeks later only to be absolutly anihilated in the second half. I swear there was a good 15 minute stage in that second half when the ball didn't cross the Wexford half back line, their centre back putting in a man of the match performance. Ball on upon ball raining down upon our defence and a certain Stephen Banville. I was there and to be destroyed in such a fashion by a Wexford team absent 5/6 cast iron starters was as galling as Nolan Park 2003.

So how, two games into the year and on a team that was already performing badly, you can say the experimentation is the 'cowards way' just defies belief. At least give the management until the later stages of the league to settle upon a team (one hopefully showing changes from last year). I mean if the management were not trying new players after the poor results of the last few years, you'd be f-ing and blinding. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Bord na Mona man]

Offaly flogged the same non-performing horses during all of last years championship, particularly in the forwards. Remember the second half performance in the league final last year when we scored 1 point from play? And after such abysmal offensive play what did we do only start the same six against Wexford four weeks later only to be absolutly anihilated in the second half. I swear there was a good 15 minute stage in that second half when the ball didn't cross the Wexford half back line, their centre back putting in a man of the match performance. Ball on upon ball raining down upon our defence and a certain Stephen Banville. I was there and to be destroyed in such a fashion by a Wexford team absent 5/6 cast iron starters was as galling as Nolan Park 2003.

On a slightly related point.
While we criticise the forwards for lack of ball winning and failing to stall the source of opposition attacks, a certain amount of blame must be laid on the backs too.

Too many times poor quality clearances are made by Offaly players under pressure. The problem being that the first Offaly player who gets his hand on the sliotar is expected to be the player who attempts the clearance. So a player who has busted himself to win it, must invariably strike under pressure, often on his weaker side and with no chance to actually pick a decent area of the field to hit it too. Hence we get the 'invisible wall' effect in Offaly games.

In other hurling counties with more developed tactics, the ball winner usually looks to lay it off to a supporting colleague in space who can actually see the field of play and strike uninhibited. In Offaly the sliotar is treated like a live grenade about to go off that must be whooshed away as quickly as possible.
If you tee up a defender properly with the ball and he should drive it beyond the opposition half back line. Make him hit it over his shoulder whilst performing contortionist gymnastics...

Do coaches in Offaly preach the "get rid of it" mantra too much instead of working on developing the short game skills and a better positional sense?
Perhaps players could work on the physical aspects of the game too. In other hurling counties players deliberately go into collision so they create space for the colleague they intend to pass to.

[Plain of the Herbs]

You're on the ball there, BnM. Keep an ear on the Offaly management on Sunday - the first defender to effect a pass to a colleague inside his own '45' will be roared at.

On a slightly related point.
While we criticise the forwards for lack of ball winning and failing to stall the source of opposition attacks, a certain amount of blame must be laid on the backs too.

Too many times poor quality clearances are made by Offaly players under pressure. The problem being that the first Offaly player who gets his hand on the sliotar is expected to be the player who attempts the clearance. So a player who has busted himself to win it, must invariably strike under pressure, often on his weaker side and with no chance to actually pick a decent area of the field to hit it too. Hence we get the 'invisible wall' effect in Offaly games.

In other hurling counties with more developed tactics, the ball winner usually looks to lay it off to a supporting colleague in space who can actually see the field of play and strike uninhibited. In Offaly the sliotar is treated like a live grenade about to go off that must be whooshed away as quickly as possible.
If you tee up a defender properly with the ball and he should drive it beyond the opposition half back line. Make him hit it over his shoulder whilst performing contortionist gymnastics...

Do coaches in Offaly preach the "get rid of it" mantra too much instead of working on developing the short game skills and a better positional sense?
Perhaps players could work on the physical aspects of the game too. In other hurling counties players deliberately go into collision so they create space for the colleague they intend to pass to.

[Kevin]

When one team has the sliotar the other team cannot score. Giving up possession in the manner described wreaks of panic and puts the opposition at a nearly unassailable advantage, especially if they are any good at all.

[bracknaghboy]

Too many rounds of musical chairs these last few years has been one of our biggest problems in my opinion! We need to bite the bullet and go for a settled lineup. Constant rotation of players is the cowards way out!!!

So how, two games into the year and on a team that was already performing badly, you can say the experimentation is the 'cowards way' just defies belief. At least give the management until the later stages of the league to settle upon a team (one hopefully showing changes from last year). I mean if the management were not trying new players after the poor results of the last few years, you'd be f-ing and blinding. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I'm sorry, I have it totally wrong. I seem to have forgotten how well the costant roation system has served us over the last 3-4 years!!Look if Dooley can't see at this stage where lads best positions are and what his best 15 are then I don't know what he's been at for the last 2 and 1/2 years?? He'll spend the rest of the league experimenting and I can assure you he'll be no wiser come championship what he wants to do.

[leinsterman]

I Think what joe is doing is looking at different positions for player's.
look we all know who will we playing in the champonship game against antrim,
offaly haven't got the pick like tipp and kk have, even look at kilkenny team that
won the league's over the last few years different side most day's in the league but
come to the champonship games its the same team bar someone is out hurt.
joe knows about 12 or 13 positions on the team are pencil in already, he is just looking
maybe to find to change a thing or two. there is no point in giving out about joe dooley or offalys forwards we don't have them in the county at the moment.
i go to alot of club game's in offaly and there is no forward out there that didn't get a
run with the county over the last few year's, colm coughlan would be the only one i
think should be on the panel and is not there. apart from shane dooley last year with tullamore winning the county title the top scorer in offaly hurling for the last few year's
has been simon whelehan of birr, and he being off the the offaly panel this 8 year's.
if brian cody was over the offaly team he would still have that forward line to work
with the forwards are not in offaly to win leagues leinster's or allirelands anymore.