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Just saw the result over on kilkennycats.com. any reports (I know it's early just wanted to get the topic up and ready )? Also seems that Dublin annihilated Wexford in the other Semi-Final 1-24 to 0-08.

The Offaly players gave the Kilkenny players a lesson in high fielding and swarming around a player in possession. Their shooting cost them the game. Colin McGrath made a fine save at the very end to deny them a goal.

The above quote from Blowincat on Kilkennycats - the most hope-inducing few sentences that I have read in years. That high-fielding and swarming style is just what our Seniors need to be competitive. Another contributor says that we won 10-12 puckouts in a row at one point. Yet another comment was that the better team lost. I couldn't get to the game but I am really buoyed up by the reports. Maybe there is hope for the future of Offaly hurling.

Fair play to the players and mentors!!

Hard luck Offaly.
Sounds like Offaly let Kilkenny get ahead early on, but rolled up their sleeves gave them a great fight.
I wonder was any of this down to Kilkenny having a warm up game and an initial lack of belief from Offaly?

I don't think there can be murmours that Offaly caught Kilkenny on the hop like in 2007 either.
Remember this side has morphed out of the 2006 minor side that lost to Carlow, so its a good redemption.
Also, the management team, who were appointed late and had the line up queried, seem to have come up well.

Lets hope this is built on. We need our U21 teams matching Kilkenny every year and not going back to shipping unmerciful whippings.

If success or failure is measured when compared to prior expectation, then this was a good result for Offaly last night. Truth is that Offaly should have nailed this, but ultimately lacked the belief and the killer instinct to go for the Kilkenny jugular. This was a very ordinary Kilkenny side and it will be interesting to see how they will fare in the final against Dublin at Parnell Park.

It didn’t look too good for Offaly during the first quarter though. The traditional Offaly inability to win their own ball in the forwards was costing them dearly, and though the defence was holding well, with Morkan and Murphy doing well under the dropping ball, Kilkenny were hurling with a greater pace, being first onto every breaking ball, midfielder Mark Kelly bursting through the middle almost at will.

The handicap of not having had a preliminary round was evident too, compared to Kilkenny, who had made some changes to their side following the quarter-final win over Laois. Five points in arrears on the quarter-hour, 0-6 to 0-1, with only a good Odhran Kealey point to show for their efforts, the outlook was bleak.

Then came a period, similar to what Offaly seniors enjoyed late in the match in Wexford, and Meath footballers had during their second-quarter purple patch against Dublin – Offaly didn’t have to puck out for a period, began to gain an edge, and the possession, territory and scores followed.

As Offaly grew in stature they thundered into the challenges, aware that the referee was lenient on the challenges, but strict on steps. The necessary ‘edge’ to the Offaly game also made a necessary appearance. Moving Conor Mahon to centre forward also helped where he thrived, and while losing Mark Egan to injury was a blow, the introduction of Colin Egan eventually paid dividends.

Offaly took the maximum time allotted during the break, and the hurlers also had their own huddle having taken the field, signs that they themselves would take on the responsibilities.

There was no second half fadeout. Derek Morkan and Eanna Murphy combined well under the Kilkenny puckout and cleared well. At one stage, Colin Egan caught three successive dropping balls, James Gorman was finally moved to the wing and did well.

Richie Hogan’s class was evident. You never knew what he was going to do next and though Stephen Wynne did well, as did Barry Harding when Hogan was at wing forward for a period. Hogan at full forward was helped by his half forward line pushing outfield, coupled with some great low delivery, giving him plenty of space to operate.

In contrast, apart from Odhran Kealey’s opening point, Offaly were unable to capitalise on the Kinnittyman’s pace. They were also unable to combine the target man full forward in the shape of Brian Leonard with sharp corner forwards that might have yielded a goal.

Kilkenny hurling snobs may scoff at John Mulhall’s style, but the highlight was a brilliant solo point when, under pressure and having caught twice, he turned onto his left and pointed off the hurl from forty metres.

Karl Mollen, a late call up who replaced Timmy Gilmore, also defended well and ‘grew into’ the game as it progressed, while Brian Coughlan also did well when faced by John Joe Farrell’s hard running.

James Dempsey was on top of his game in goal, taking one ball down from over the crossbar, and being aware he had the time to gather, but the highlight was a flying save late in the game when he tipped a piledriver over the bar as Kilkenny sought to kill the contest with the late‘Kilkenny’ goal.

It was score-for-score throughout the third quarter, twice Offaly levelled, and twice Kilkenny led by two. Kilkenny did open a four point gap late on, as they fed Hogan and Farrell, and pressed for the clinching goal, and an Offaly point after Derek Morkan dropped in a long free, left three in it again before a half chance of an equalising goal was cleared.

Close but no cigar.


Post Script. PM O’Sullivan noted this site in an excellent article in the programme, writing “Offaly U21’s visit at a difficult time. The county’s hurling – obvious pun permitted – is under a cloud. The seniors essentially bottled their Leinster quarter-final in Wexford Park, possessing the talent up front, but not the resolve. The Minors, under Johnny Pilkington’s management, have won just one tie in 2008 and 2009 (and that against Kildare). This season’s U21 manager, former goalkeeper Stephen Byrne, was not confirmed until last April. If you read www.uibhfhaili.com, a website for supporters, there is barely suppressed despair about prospects in the medium term.”

Great report there.
It's a bit surreal to hear of Offaly outcatching Kilkenny on high balls. Granted these games can be a once off.

I wonder how much can we attribute to a differing approach of management teams?
Johnny Pilkington with the minors seems to come from the school of 'pull, whip, flail and flake' at every ball that comes near.
Maybe the U21 management opted for a bit more of a controlled approach to ball usage.
Though since they only had a few weeks to work with the panel, I could be overestimating their impact.

What about Conor Mahon at centre forward for the seniors?
He his good ball catching abilities, puts himself about and can burst his way forward.
He doesn't have the stick abilities of Joe Brady, but he's more mobile and can carry the ball better.

We could do with a half forward who on catching the ball can pivot and head towards goal.
Half backs dislike this and often commit fouls when they get eyeball to eyeball with a player with forward momentum.
The half forward who gets possession and goes back towards his own goal is much easier to harass by legal means.

Fair dues to Stephen Byrne for working well with the team in the limited time he had, but I think Johnny Cleary and Paudge Mulhare also deserve praise. I know we lost but the team was picked as well as could've been expected and Cleary and Mulhare obviously had a big say in this. Johnny P didn't seem to be able to pick a team at all and his prefered old-fashioned ground hurling style is dying a quick death and Offaly need to adjust this.

Hogan's touch of class

By Kilkenny 0-18 Offaly 0-15

Thursday June 11 2009

Defending champions Kilkenny were made to look average in parts when pushed to beat lively Offaly in the second Leinster U-21 HC semi-final at Nowlan Park yesterday evening.

The Cats opened very smartly, and at one stage during the first-half they led by 0-6 to 0-1.

Midfielder Mark Kelly was flying, and he weighed in with three scores.

However, Offaly stormed back and at the break had cut the arrears back to 0-10 to 0-8.

When they opened the second-half with points from Odhran Kealey and Conor Mahon, they got back level for the first time.

During the following 15 minutes or so it was nip-and-tuck as the teams battled for supremacy.

Twice the scores were level, but with 13 minutes remaining Kilkenny got back in front.

Senior star Ritchie Hogan showed a touch of class when shooting the lead point.

Almost immediately, sub James Nolan weighed in with a similar score and then he laid on one for Hogan to up the advantage to 0-16 to 0-13.

When Jon Joe Farrell clipped over another Kilkenny point, the game was put beyond the reach of the midlanders.

Scorers -- Kilkenny: R Hogan 0-6 (0-3f, 0-1 '65), M Kelly 0-4, J Mulhall 0-3, C Fennelly, JJ Farrell 0-2 each, J Nolan 0-1. Offaly: D Currams 0-4 (0-2f), J Gorman, O Kealey 0-3 each, C Mahon, M Egan (2f) 0-2 each, B Leonard 0-1.

Kilkenny -- C McGrath, P Murphy, A Kearns, C Fogarty, Lester Ryan, D Langton, J Dowling, M Kelly, M Walsh, C Fennelly, JJ Farrell, J Mulhall, M Bergin, R Hogan, Liam Ryan. Subs: J Nolan for Liam Ryan (40); P Nolan for Dowling (43)

Offaly -- J Dempsey, B Harding, S Wynne, B Coughlan, D Morkan, E Murphy, K Mollen, C Mahon, D Mooney, J Mulrooney, D Currams, M Egan, J Gorman, B Leonard, O Kealey. Subs: C Egan for M Egan (24, inj), G Scales for Mulrooney (42)

Ref -- F Smith (Meath).

- Kilkenny 0-18 Offaly 0-15

For me Bord na Mona Man Conor Mahon should certainly be given a go at centre forward for the seniors as Plain of the herbs said in his report his movement there from centre field on wed evening had a huge impact in getting Offaly into the game, his ability to field ball at run at defenders would be a huge addition, granted he is not the most gifted hurler we have but the lad has no fear and ya know what ya will get from him, he gives everything he has.

It was a heart warming performance on wed evening, they gave a hugely spirited performance and but for a few wrong decisions when in scoring positions we could have edged this one, if we could have just got a point ahead of them i feel we would have beaten them.

Credit must go to Stephen Byrne & Co. ill be first to admit i had reservations when the management team was announced but fair play to them for the job they did.

bazza wrote:Fair dues to Stephen Byrne for working well with the team in the limited time he had, but I think Johnny Cleary and Paudge Mulhare also deserve praise. I know we lost but the team was picked as well as could've been expected and Cleary and Mulhare obviously had a big say in this. Johnny P didn't seem to be able to pick a team at all and his prefered old-fashioned ground hurling style is dying a quick death and Offaly need to adjust this.

Bazza,

I've seen this written by a lot of people and it seems to be the message that's been passed on at the 'coaching courses' aswell - ground hurling is dead and you have to pick it up and run with it. This is the message put out there by coaches of our development squads and it's a fast route to the wilderness for Offaly hurling if it's allowed to continue.

We have never had the type of hurlers who were suited by a running, possession game. The style of play of old that worked for Offaly was not just about ground hurling but it was about quick hurling where the ball spent very little time in any one mans possession. It was obvious on Wednesday evening that when Eanna Murphy contested the puck outs, he contested them hard with the aim of breaking the ball. Del Morkan, in particular, was mopping up the loose ball and moving it quick to the forward line. It at least looked like a plan and had the hallmarks of the half back lines of the '80s and '90s about it. The half and full forward lines, with the exception of Brian Leonard, were alive to what was going on around them and were coming in front to give the backs an outlet. I'm not saying these youngsters are as good as what has gone before them but they've at least been coached how to hurl wisely against good opposition.

Similiarly, our two wing forwards played the ball fast to the corners and followed on for the breaks. They didn't fall into the trap of trying to turn their men 60 yards out because they would have been swallowed up. We waited until the game had opened up in the last 15 minutes and then our bigger men, Conor Mahon and Colin Egan and James Gorman on occasions, started to win aerial possession and run at the Kilkenny defence and we created 2 or 3 decent goal chances. We didn't take them but at least we went about it in the correct manner.

Those who say ground hurling is dead and that we need to run with the ball should be put away from our county teams for good. Offaly never hurled the ball on the ground randomly as some would like to think. It was taken in hand when it needed to be, played on the ground when it needed to be and ran with by the likes of Johnny P when it needed to be. The old Offaly ethos of get out in front and move the ball quick and fight like dogs when you don't have it was never as badly needed as now. We abandoned our way of hurling under Mike Mac and Fr.Tommy and John McIntyre and went with mostly light pacy players all over the field - we won the sum total of sweet fcuk all.... it's high time we changed back. It's also high time refs at club level let our club championship toughen up a bit and stopped giving handy frees to anyone who asks for them. I'm not looking for all out wars to develop but at least get lads accustomed to hard hurling as they'll encounter from any half-decent inter-county team.

P.S. To those who will counter with the argument that Johnny P failed with the minors because he tried to bring back this old style, ye're way off. Johnny P failed because he hasn't a clue how to coach a team (at that age and level at least). Just because the whole place can hear you roaring doesn't make what you're saying any more insightful and he'd do well to learn that!!

Over The Black Spot wrote: Those who say ground hurling is dead and that we need to run with the ball should be put away from our county teams for good. Offaly never hurled the ball on the ground randomly as some would like to think. It was taken in hand when it needed to be, played on the ground when it needed to be and ran with by the likes of Johnny P when it needed to be. The old Offaly ethos of get out in front and move the ball quick and fight like dogs when you don't have it was never as badly needed as now.

Couldn't agree more.

That's a great post from Over the Black Spot and I look forward to the reactions. In fairness to Bazza he didn't advocate solo running up blind alleys.

bazza wrote:Johnny P didn't seem to be able to pick a team at all and his prefered old-fashioned ground hurling style is dying a quick death and Offaly need to adjust this.

I'm only an ordinary supporter with no hurling background but I've watched a lot of Offaly teams, underage and senior, and we have two constant failings - we can't get the ball in hand from air or ground and we waste hard-won possession by putting it back in 50-50 situations. I'm all for moving it quickly and spreading the play but we need to use it intelligently to favour a team-mate or work a scoring opportunity.

Kilkenny are lording it over the game because Brian Cody won't pick a player who can't catch the ball or get it into the hand from the ground under pressure. Breaking the ball has its place as well - Kilkenny used their aerial power to break the ball last year and proved to be just as good at picking up the breaks. Either way Offaly need to be better at winning possession. We are always playing uphill against the breeze if we are at 30% or 40% possession. All the blocking, hooking and tackling (skills I love to see) in the world won't compensate for a failure to win possession in the first place.

I don't think people are saying a complete change to a running, possession game.
People want to see clever use of the ball without players hitting it in hope and needlessly turning over possession.

I agree that with the passing of time, some people tend to overestimate how much Offaly thrived by ground hurling.
I think that is part of the problem. Some people think that Offaly won things purely by being better ground hurlers than the rest. This has given rise to a large rump of people in the county who want to see every ball mindlessly swotted at.

There is a time and a place for ground hurling.
Very few players can hit a ground shot 60 or 70 metres. Very few players can actually direct it to a team mate while looking down and doing their best to get a sweet contact.

It helped Offaly players in the 80s because they didn't have the all round skills to play more measured hurling. When players don't have the skills to get the ball in hand first time, then you need to get them to move it away as quickly as humanly possible.
Its like Jack Charlton with Ireland. He didn't trust the players skills on the ball so the instruction was to hack it away and play the percentages.

Times move on and the game evolves. Clare won two All Irelands by being savagely more fit than the rest. It doesn't mean they will win their next All Ireland by achieving the same feat. What might have worked for Offaly 20 years ago, won't necessarily work now.

As far back as 2001, it was clear that Offaly were on a slippery slope with the GH dogma.
Offaly's defeat to Kilkenny came was worsened by the players murdering at every ball and turning over possession to farcical levels - granted we were doing our best to timber Kilkenny in the process too.

In 2006 vs. Wexford, I remember afterwards (selector) Daithi Regan was furious that Offaly players went against orders and picked the ball up too much.
Yet Wexford's winning score owed as much to Offaly ground hurling dogma.
An Offaly defender, on his own '45, with time and in space, pulled on a ball first time that he could have picked up and driven the length of the field.
The result - an ugly miscue - 45 degrees off target - that travelled 15 metres to a Wexford player, who gave the ball to Stephen Nolan to tap over the winning point.
I wonder was any of this down to the player having undergone years of Offaly coaches roaring at them to 'pull on it', 'first time', 'ah jaysus what are you doing picking it up for'?

Too often Offaly players (especially) at underage take too many touches to get the ball in hand. Players have to tap it on the hurl once or twice to control it. We clearly don't have the same catching and hand skills as other counties. Probably because it isn't a core value of Offaly coaches.
I feel that by instructing them to pull on it is a cop out to actually addressing the skills deficiencies.

I don't agree about Johnny Pilkington btw.
Pilkington started a revolt against Babs Keating in 1998 with the core issue of wanting more ground hurling.
He's another 'Mr Whippy' style coach with outdated views on the game.

INOFFALYIBELIEVE wrote:For me Bord na Mona Man Conor Mahon should certainly be given a go at centre forward for the seniors as Plain of the herbs said in his report his movement there from centre field on wed evening had a huge impact in getting Offaly into the game, his ability to field ball at run at defenders would be a huge addition, granted he is not the most gifted hurler we have but the lad has no fear and ya know what ya will get from him, he gives everything he has.

It was a heart warming performance on wed evening, they gave a hugely spirited performance and but for a few wrong decisions when in scoring positions we could have edged this one, if we could have just got a point ahead of them i feel we would have beaten them.

Credit must go to Stephen Byrne & Co. ill be first to admit i had reservations when the management team was announced but fair play to them for the job they did.

I've always looked at Mahon and thought we could make use of him. He mightn't have velvet wrists, but he has other qualities that Offaly could do with. We especially need a bit of abrasiveness on the half forward line.

When you think back to some of the most effective centre forwards over the years - the likes of John Power and Brendan Lynskey. They weren't great stylists, but when they got the ball they went in one direction only - goalwards.
They drew in defenders and created space for other forwards.
They were especially effective because they operated in forward units where the rest of the forwards wouldn't have been renowned ball winners.

They won far more frees than they conceded. The forward who makes the quick turn into the defender generally gets the free, the forward who bobs and weaves waiting for an opening generally gets penalised.

I'm not trying to build him too quickly, but I'd like to see Offaly give him every chance to grow into the position.
There is a risk that he's the sort of player that supporters will jump on his back and management lose faith, if the final product isn't always good. If he doesn't get a run in the qualifiers, then I'd hope he is given 3 or 4 league games next year to try and grow into the position.

Have to say I agree a lot with what you're saying OTBS. It may seem like i'm retracting my comments but what frustrated me repeatedly with Johnny P was this mad pull and let fly on everything attitude and no player knowing what their role was. For me ground hurling is important on the half back line but more importantly the half forward line. We cant compete in the air so let half forwards break it and let fly with a purpose. The full-forward line has to be clued in and out in front though. Is there anything more frustrating that seeing a corner-forward behind the back after a great ground stroke. But this ethos has to be instilled into the team. There is no point in a manager coming in and saying we're gonna pull hard on everythin lads. Like that's rubbish! Ground hurling can be used effectively to a ceratin extent but the players are still going to have a sharp first touch and drill that ball over the bar.

Over The Black Spot wrote:

Johnny P failed because he hasn't a clue how to coach a team (at that age and level at least). Just because the whole place can hear you roaring doesn't make what you're saying any more insightful and he'd do well to learn that!!

In fairness, I think Johnny P can't coach at any level! He has taken Kilcormac/Killoughey backwards since taking over this year, this was a team that was always challenging in the top 4 for the past few years, and a few weeks ago they struggled to draw with Shamrocks. With respect to Shamrocks, I think K/K should be beating them well. I think Johnny P was a super hurler for the county but I think he just doesn't have it at a coaching level.