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I think people are getting tired of you ranting and ravings LONESHARK. you talk as if you are an expert on the game and yet your "insights" to say the least are uneduacated.
the "mcmanus issue":- you say they had a great game at midfield yet he should have been taken off. what???? offaly for the most part dominated midfield. mcmanus worked tirelessly defending and attacking. any observant person would have seen that clancy was marking mcmanus and what did he do in the game??? how many times did we see mcmanus helping the backs defending, 3/4 occasions helping slattery chase munnelley, many occasions sweeping in behind defenders. do we see mcnamee defending? no! mcnamee has improved greatly at midfield, but he still has to learn, to mark his man closely and track back!! i feel they are developing as a good midfield at last, but its still mcmanus doing most of the work. where would be be without him at midfield? you think anyone else in the country woulld do the work he does at midfield.
now free taking! who's going take them? its not his fault he is left with the responcibility. let management find a free taker and take the pressure of mcmanus. im pretty sure he would be happy with that. please note N mcnamee's record is not hetic either. THEY TOOK OFF PASCAL K, C QUINN AND JIMMY PAW, management have alot of work to do!!!
now please get of your high horse and talk sense. the game was lost by our forwards in the second half:- who gave up their attcking game in the second half, passed responcibility on shooting, poor defending, note how the quick kickout was taking after N mcnamee missed the free, forwards just turned their backs and left THREE LAOIS MEN FREE, WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THEN! laois just ran at us in the second half as noted by our defenders!
get off mcmanus's back and look at the real picture! you and your website chronies dont seem to notice the real hard work he does, just critise when he makes a few mistakes. go thro every player and count their mistakes, but no, loneshark and his friends wont do this as mcmanus is the only one who made mistakes!! right??? its easy to pick him out as ye expect him to do everything for everyone! get a real grip on the situation, hes an outstanding player and invaluable to offaly, as is all the players who put on the jersey and i will support them whenever & wherever

Ara get down from there will ya, you'll fall and hurt yourself.

LoneShark is perfectly entitled, as are you, to express his opinions. I find his analysis usually well thought out and articulated, even though I disagree with him every so often.

It's only natural that we look for ways to improve our team after a disappointing result, and those are what we are talking about.

No one on here that I can see is on a witch-hunt against Ciarán or anybody else. We all have huge admiration for the men who pull on the county jersey we love. If we make comments, or constructive criticisms, about the teams style of play, it is only because we want to see them do better.

We all want what is best for Offaly football, and are all going to be 100% behind the team in the Qualifiers, and any criticism, or comments regarding the management, the players or whatever arises from the desire to see them fulfill their potential. I don't think we can say they have yet.

Didn't see this coming, but okay.....

biffo5 wrote:I think people are getting tired of you ranting and ravings LONESHARK. you talk as if you are an expert on the game and yet your "insights" to say the least are uneduacated.

I've no idea if people are getting tired of me. If they are, they have every right to say so, either by posting or by emailing, both of which anyone is free to do. You're the first one to mention it. We all disagree on various topics, and that's why this board is here. Regarding "uneducated", I don't think any of us were officially educated in Gaelic Football and Hurling, it's just a product of playing and observing at various levels.

biffo5 wrote:the "mcmanus issue":- you say they had a great game at midfield yet he should have been taken off. what???? offaly for the most part dominated midfield. mcmanus worked tirelessly defending and attacking. any observant person would have seen that clancy was marking mcmanus and what did he do in the game??? how many times did we see mcmanus helping the backs defending, 3/4 occasions helping slattery chase munnelley, many occasions sweeping in behind defenders. do we see mcnamee defending? no! mcnamee has improved greatly at midfield, but he still has to learn, to mark his man closely and track back!!

Nobody would ever dream of questioning the man's workrate. He is probably the hardest working intercounty footballer on the field of play in the country, certainly up there with the Doohers, Galvins, and Shane Ryans, the very best of them. My point was not that he wasn't doing a lot of good things, it was that on this particular day, the overall effect of his performance was negative. For all the ball he won, and it was a lot, he lost a lot too. His overenthusiasm meant he fouled on several occasions, and in actual fact often while he was helping out other players he wasn't covering the guy he should have been. As regards what did Clancy do, well at the risk of being facetious he scored one point and played a good ball to assist for another. Not a heroic performance by any stretch, but more than Mac did in an attacking sense....

biffo5 wrote:now free taking! who's going take them? its not his fault he is left with the responcibility. let management find a free taker and take the pressure of mcmanus. im pretty sure he would be happy with that. please note N mcnamee's record is not hetic either. THEY TOOK OFF PASCAL K, C QUINN AND JIMMY PAW, management have alot of work to do!!!

Agreed completely. You won't find anything I've written that contradicts this bit. I don't think Niall should ever take frees, they're not his thing, and nobody is dismissing the fact that Mac only ever gets the 45M plus efforts from which 50% is a fair return. However you can surely concede that we have yet to see the day when he started badly and turned it around.

biffo5 wrote:now please get of your high horse and talk sense. the game was lost by our forwards in the second half:- who gave up their attcking game in the second half, passed responcibility on shooting, poor defending, note how the quick kickout was taking after N mcnamee missed the free, forwards just turned their backs and left THREE LAOIS MEN FREE, WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THEN! laois just ran at us in the second half as noted by our defenders!

No high horse here. I'm as hurt as you are, and hate to see these things happening. You'll notice if you read through my posts that I agreed with the Paschal and Jimmy withdrawals, and suggested Niall and Mark Daly should have gone too, in place of the likes of Hunt and Roy, who are very hardworking players and wouldn't have let this happen. For a guy who is very easily outraged you really don't seem to read a lot of my postings.

biffo5 wrote:get off mcmanus's back and look at the real picture! you and your website chronies dont seem to notice the real hard work he does, just critise when he makes a few mistakes. go thro every player and count their mistakes, but no, loneshark and his friends wont do this as mcmanus is the only one who made mistakes!! right??? its easy to pick him out as ye expect him to do everything for everyone! get a real grip on the situation, hes an outstanding player and invaluable to offaly, as is all the players who put on the jersey and i will support them whenever & wherever

Okay at this stage I'm just going to allow for momentum carrying you a little bit farther than you wanted to go here. Barring it was a tagline to every post I couldn't acknowledge and appreciate more the work he does. He is an outstanding player, and I've said this on many occasions. I wouldn't dream of not picking him (unlike a lot of people I might add), I just personally believe he would make a fine centre back for Offaly.

And we all plan on supporting Offaly through thick and thin. That is why the Shark came about, that is why this website came about. For myself and the other guy involved here (I'm not sure if he wants it to be known who he is, so I'll just say "the other guy") we have long acknowledged that we are never going to be able to play football at any meaningful level, so this was all we could do. I do some scribbling, he does a lot of technical and admin work. That's all we can do.

There will never be any personal attacks or slander on this site towards people wearing the county shirt, all of whom are doing their best for all our sakes. But it is hardly unreasonable to state that a particular player had a bad game. And I'm sure if you asked the man himself he'd agree. He has put in too many outstanding displays in the past to honestly think that what happened on Sunday was his best foot being put forward.



For people to decide for themselves, here are the McManus related comments I've made since Sunday. Feel free to pick on anything where I've been unreasonable or unfair.


Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: Where to begin?
(2) I have great time for McManus for all he has done for us, but his status as untouchable has to end. He has his good days and his bad days, and never has the discipline to play his way out of a slump. He has to start, but the idea that he cannot be withdrawn is a fallacy and might wake him up a bit.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: Player by player.
Mad Mac: Unfortunately when things are going badly, all he knows how to do is try harder. This rarely ends well. Hopefully a tour of some provincial venues where he is invariably more at home will restore his confidence. I don’t blame him for missing the frees, I blame management/other senior players for not coming up and taking them off him.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: Mad Mac

biffo5 wrote:
gutted over the 45 as he felt this was his only scoreable free.

The free before that was also within range, it was just because of Clancy's inexplicable touch on it that we got the 45. Anyway, his worst two wides were the two from play, both from close in. The one in the first half nearly hit the corner flag. Nobody here is questioning the man's effort or commitment, just he needs to stop working himself into a frenzy and doing stupid things. The ball just needs to go above the crossbar and between the two uprights - it doesn't have to break the net behind the goals, or count double if it's from 50 metres out.

Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject: Mad Mac
At the end of the day this board is not Hogan Stand - I don't think anyone here is suggesting in seriousness that McManus be dropped. However sombody needs to help him face up to his limitations, because he is clearly unable to himself. This is not meant as a criticism of the man by the way - Colm Cooper doesn't drop back to midfield to field the ball as well as finish, Paddy Christie doesn't try to burst past lads and move into space for the return, so it's hardly being harsh on Mac to say that he can't do everything. However he seems to be the only player in the whole country that tries to do just that.

It frustrates us as supporters because of his potential - he can be unstoppable. But he can have a very negative influence as well, and management have to be willing to address that when it starts happening.

At the end of the day too most of the wides came from Mac, Jimmy or Niall. Two of these players are under 21s, the other is an experienced international with 10 years of senior intercounty football behind him. This is why it hurts more when they come from him - they are so much more unforgiveable.

I don't think anyone here would ever question McManus's commitment and dedication to Offaly football.
Because he is our big name player, then his performance will be analysed more than other less influential players. That's just the way it is.

P.S. It's not as if this site's contributors are the only ones to suggest that McManus's performance was not flawless.
Sean Moran in the Times wrote:

"Centrefielder Ciarán McManus is often guilty of mixing some confident long-range kicking with some haywire stuff. Yesterday there was no mix. Although he and Alan McNamee were on top around the middle, McManus had a horror day as regards marksmanship, contributing a quarter of his side's wides."

Come off your high horse, Biffo5!

Anybody watching Offaly regularly knows that Ciaran Mac Manus can be headless. A few years ago I would have said that he is brilliant and exasperating in equal measure! Now he has spells where he is just exasperating!

He is the worst distributor of the ball on the team. Look at the tape of the match on Sunday and see what happened to the ball Mac got! Martin McHugh castigated him over it in the Star on Monday. Also he works hard as a defender but often goes to help out somebody else only to have his own man gallop through with the offload. Just one of the many ways that Mac Manus can leave supporters crying in frustration.

Equally every Offaly fan loves Mac Manus' enthusiasm and would love for him to do well. Who will ever forget his 30 yard goals against Donegal in the League semi-final in 1998 or Laois in the 2003 championship. Or his point from a free against Clare from way out in Ennis 2003. Amazing.

Jaysus B5, you picked an odd day to come in with all guns blazing. I'm a clubmate of the big man, and he might be the best midfielder in Ireland but he had a dog of a day Sunday. He'll know it himself and be taking it to heart like he always does, that's the kind of committed man he is. But to try and say that he shouldn't be criticised? You may relax the head if something like that is getting to ya.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be criticised. Its just everyone is implying he is trying to do everything for everyone which is not the case.
Let me answer some of the above:-
Defending! On only one occasion in the second half I can recall any forward tracking back to help stop Laois attacking. Mcmanus is left to do all the covering, even his partner at midfield is very poor for covering back. Why is this not addressed in your comments? Why is it his man picks up the overlap?, of course it is if nobody else covers back,
Shooting:- lets not start there, that’s a team wide issue.
Free taking:- problem which is not for mcmanus to stop. Im sure the easy free jimmy paw had would have been converted by most of our freetakers.

This croke park/mcmanus theory/issue of Lonesharks, last Sunday our midfield dominated Midfield, contrary to your beliefs last week! I seem to recall mcmanus was MOM in last years league final. Selective memory. Westmeath game poor, before that was Kildare in a replay where he played wing forward and scored 1- 4. I recall a club suspension kicked in for the meath game. Other games of note were league semi and final. Not to mention several brill displays for Ireland all in croke park. I think this is some of his record in CP, I suppose Loneshark your right, he has a terrible record in cp!!!!! . im not pursuing the mcmanus issue any more, hes a great player, always does the jersey proud and if ye want to continue criticising by all means , its clear that many here have issues. Finally it’s a 30 man squad not one man, so lets keep the discussions balanced. Unfortunately the 30 players are beset with a TERRIBLE management team and I believe there lies the root cause of most of Offaly’s problems. I only hope county management have the guts this year to do the right thing and get a good manager for offaly. Im afraid if this does not happy we will never see the true potential of offaly football.

biffo5 wrote:I’m not saying he shouldn’t be criticised. Its just everyone is implying he is trying to do everything for everyone which is not the case.

I and a lot of others would disagree with you here - I think he does try to take on too much. But that's only an opinion.

biffo5 wrote:Defending! On only one occasion in the second half I can recall any forward tracking back to help stop Laois attacking. Mcmanus is left to do all the covering, even his partner at midfield is very poor for covering back. Why is this not addressed in your comments? Why is it his man picks up the overlap?, of course it is if nobody else covers back,
Shooting:- lets not start there, that’s a team wide issue.
Free taking:- problem which is not for mcmanus to stop. Im sure the easy free jimmy paw had would have been converted by most of our freetakers.

I mentioned on several occasions that Mark Daly was struggling to track in the second half. I thought McNamee did ok with Garvan, who to be fair doesn't do as much pushing forward as Clancy does, and Neville was certainly not shirking any work. Quinn had some problems with his man all right, which I accept I haven't brought up anywhere else.

The free taking is a management issue. We're in agreement there. The shooting is a team wide issue, but when one player contributes more wides than any other, then surely it's fair to say that he's at the very least a big part of the problem?

biffo5 wrote:This croke park/mcmanus theory/issue of Lonesharks, last Sunday our midfield dominated Midfield, contrary to your beliefs last week! I seem to recall mcmanus was MOM in last years league final. Selective memory. Westmeath game poor, before that was Kildare in a replay where he played wing forward and scored 1- 4. I recall a club suspension kicked in for the meath game. Other games of note were league semi and final. Not to mention several brill displays for Ireland all in croke park. I think this is some of his record in CP, I suppose Loneshark your right, he has a terrible record in cp!!!!!

Right taking these one at a time. Last year's league final was just that - a division 2 league final. I'm sure the last thing any player wants to be remembered as is a great league player - in GAA that's a thinly veiled insult. His own speech that day showed you how already the Westmeath match was his focus. My point is that in Croke Park on Championship match day he gets too wound up and performs way below standard. So in Championship since the turn of the decade .....

2000 - Kildare - actually scored 1-2 rather than 1-4, but nonetheless had a very good game. I'll give you this one.
2001 - Laois - scored a couple of frees, but Laois midfield definitely won out this day. Offaly did not deserve this win, and were charmed to get it - Kealy and Garvan were definitely on top.
2001 - Dublin - Had a very poor day out. Was unlucky, but at the same time even he remembers it as his toughest day in an Offaly shirt. (Though that was pre Westmeath last year)
2004 - Westmeath. - Absolute horror show.
2005 - Laois - poor show again.

As for the displays for Ireland, that was playing international rules - a similar but still completely different game. You might as well say he played a fantastic leg of Darts in the Croke Park bar area. We're talking here about playing Gaelic Football for Offaly.

So one good game in five years. Now contrast that with his performances for Offaly in provincial venues - occasionally moderate, usually outstanding, sometimes superhuman - the Kildare replay in 2002 being the kind of individual display not seen in an Offaly football shirt since Matt Connor. I can't recall him having the kind of nightmare outside of Croke Park that he had in two seperate games in it - Westmeath and Dublin. (I don't consider this year's display that bad, though it was poor)


Your final point about management is fair enough, and is being debated elsewhere on the site. On those grounds I think it's fair to say we're not too far off agreement, though I wouldn't be quite as hardline as yourself.

Obviously no one wants this thread to become "McManus on trial", but to abuse anyone who hints at the shortcomings in his game is unhelpful.
Most of us know what Mac is capable of - our only wish is that he fulfils his potential as often as possible.

Lone Shark has pretty much given an accurate summary of McManus's championship performances in Croke Park.
Lets not pretend that his record in CP, matches his ability.

For me I get so frustrated by Ciarán McManus simply because I know what he is capable of but often doesn't achieve. Since '97 himself, Vinny Claffey and Finbar Cullen have been Offaly's leading lights, he is the only nationally known player Offaly have now. He is a hugely talented footballer, athlete and committed Offaly GAA man and equally infuriating, sometimes.
If I could make a mere suggestion, maybe we should give his ears a rest and drop this thread. Nuff said and let the man do his talking on the pitch.

Neville Coughlans comments are interesting!!!!

This is only my fifth year with the county yet I'm on my fourth different manager. It's hard when you are used to playing one way one year and next thing a lad comes in and has you playing a different way altogether.

Padraig Nolan wanteed us to work the ball as quick as we could out to centre field and then hit a long ball into the full forward line with the half forward line coming in for the break or the lay-off. The following year with Paul O'Kelly, it was diagonal ball. If a centre fielder got the ball on the right he was to kick it to the left and vice-versa; you maybe hit the occasional ball down the middle. McManus would be told, 'Go for goal. No one will catch you'. After a few years, poor McManus was confused. 'Do I give it long?. Do I switch it over to the other wing? Do I run with it?"