Offaly Minor Football 2024

[Fear Uibh]

in an ideal world every club would be able to field teams on there own, but unfortunately that's not the case. i think the amalgamations do serve a purpose, e.g. St Broghans minor A champs in 2016 knock on from that is Bracknagh win an intermediate(2016) and 2 Senior B championships (2019 & 2022), Clonbulloge win intermediate championship (2021) and Senior B champions this year.
Na Fianna win Minor A championship 2019 Ballinagar had the biggest representation on that team (think they had 5 Offaly minor panalists that year as well)they follow that up with Junior win in 2022 and intermediate this year. if both those amalgamations weren't succesfull do we think those adult clubs wouldnt have had the following success.
From our own club in Doon i know that there's great work going on with 6-10 year olds the last couple of years and it will take a few years for this to benefit the club, are all clubs not doing something similar? i know up in shannonbridge they started a couple of years before us, and they were able to field in Jerry Conway cup (u12)this year on there own.

[jimbob17]

in an ideal world every club would be able to field teams on there own, but unfortunately that's not the case. i think the amalgamations do serve a purpose, e.g. St Broghans minor A champs in 2016 knock on from that is Bracknagh win an intermediate(2016) and 2 Senior B championships (2019 & 2022), Clonbulloge win intermediate championship (2021) and Senior B champions this year.
Na Fianna win Minor A championship 2019 Ballinagar had the biggest representation on that team (think they had 5 Offaly minor panalists that year as well)they follow that up with Junior win in 2022 and intermediate this year. if both those amalgamations weren't succesfull do we think those adult clubs wouldnt have had the following success.
From our own club in Doon i know that there's great work going on with 6-10 year olds the last couple of years and it will take a few years for this to benefit the club, are all clubs not doing something similar? i know up in shannonbridge they started a couple of years before us, and they were able to field in Jerry Conway cup (u12)this year on there own.

Fair enough Broughans won a minor and Bracknagh did well after, and same with Ballinagar because they had 7 or 8 on a minor team. How did Walsh Island or Raheen do out of those minor teams. How did they do over the last number of years when Tullamore won minor and u20s at their expense? The basic point is that if you can keep lads playing for as long as possible up through minor level, then adult clubs benefit. I guarantee you that off that Na Fianna minor squad, there are a high volume of lads that never played after and there were plenty who never played minor that year because they were not given a chance at U15 or before that. Now if Clodiagh Gaels had their own minor team and looked after their own underage, and Ballinagar Raheen did likewise, you'd get two teams out of that area when there is currently only one. The numbers are most definitely there to support this in their primary schools.

Even if they dont win minor A, then the adult clubs would have more players who have been developed - twice as many in fact. That is the argument! Is that not a bigger win than 3 of your club players winning a minor A championship medal? And if this was the case then maybe the likes of Ballinagar and Raheen and Clodiagh Gaels wouldnt have been stuck in junior and intermediate football for the last 20 years or so as there is strong population in these areas for a long time with plenty of talent wasted. A bigger question is why the hell aren't these 4 club amalgamation clubs absolutely dominating underage football in the county given their numbers?

None of these clubs should be below Senior B level given the underage talent and population that has gone through their primary schools in the last 20 years. Maybe some of these clubs are only now getting to where they should have been all along if they were strategically developing their players. The county development squads and schools teams would have fulfilled the role playing minor A did if any of the teams happened to be in B club football. Just watch what happens now with Walsh Island as they have brought very few through in recent years because some of their young lads never got any football with St Broughans and quit as a result. There are lads that stopped in Bracknagh and Clonbullogue too because of this. Both clubs will pay a price for this despite recent success. Walsh Island could struggle in Intermediate and follow Erin Rovers who have now dropped to junior football - or junior B if you are honest as they are in the fourth tier. Ballycumber and Tubber and Doon have already felt the mark that St Manchans has made on their numbers and they are only a short time in existence.

Great that Shannonbridge and Doon are showing initiative and looking after their own. Other clubs need to do likewise if they really care about being anyway competitive in top two tiers in 15 years time when their current 7 year olds are 22. I can guarantee you that the club official from the neighbouring amalgamation club down the road doesnt really care about whether or not or how you develop your talent, but they will care about their own and we see this sometimes in political selection issues in these larger amalgamation teams. As the saying goes, if you don't look after yourself, nobody else will.

[greenairfield]

I think it is evident across go games wasnt it at the start of the year when the county board were not happy with a large portion of clubs at football because they weren't represented as go games instead choose to use alamgations.

I was of the impression almagated clubs were for clubs who struggled to field a team....kk are in total domination at adult level it completely contradicts the point of it.

[jimbob17]

I think it is evident across go games wasnt it at the start of the year when the county board were not happy with a large portion of clubs at football because they weren't represented as go games instead choose to use alamgations.

I was of the impression almagated clubs were for clubs who struggled to field a team....kk are in total domination at adult level it completely contradicts the point of it.

Yea you are correct here. Fairly sure I recall Michael Duignan publicly referencing one adult club who had huge numbers in their primary school / schools (without naming them) who refused to comply. There was a request put to the adult clubs that they would put in their own club teams into U8 Go Games blitzes where the numbers were there so that effectively, more players would be given the opportunity to play gaelic games. For whatever reason, and I dont know why, not too many clubs took up the offer. If the clubs in these areas can't see the longer term benefit of this, then we have the wrong people over underage GAA in these areas.

Not sure if this is an issue in hurling as much given the rural depopulation in South Offaly, but amalgamations at underage should really be for clubs who cannot field teams by themselves and where two adult clubs can make up a team at underage, that is preferable than a 4 team amalgamation. As an example, Cappincur/Ballycommon and Daingean Kilclonfert amalgamations would serve all four clubs way better than St Vincents does in it's current guise.

[FlyOnTheWall]

So the solution to Tullamore and KkS dominance is to form a new club in Tullamore when there already is on in B/D there is an agreement in place that kids from the town if they wish to play with B/D there’s no issue as it’s the same parish.
Tullamore have there structures coaches S&c etc all in place the last 7/8 yrs Kk a bit longer than Tullamore . It’s time other other clubs start looking at themselves and stop blaming Tullamore and Kk or getting the county board to do something . Do it yerselves talk to Tullamore talk to KK ask them what have they done .
Not too long ago Tullamore were in B and losing in quarter finals at underage so it not always a given it’s down to hard work

Couldnt agree more. GAA in Tullamore was losing out to soccer and rugby not all that long ago. They were a mess in underage football and hurling and not making A finals, were in B in all hurling grades and some football grades. They got their underage in order by getting maybe 10-15 really good GAA people involved with a chunk of these still involved at adult and U20 level. They got their stuff together, developed a gym and got the young lads engaged with S&C from a young age and spending money wisely on games development in primary schools coaching and development to catch them early. Their success was nothing to do with being a big club with big numbers. Their hurling side has improved hugely too because of this development reaching a good few co underage hurling finals in recent years. In meantime soccer and rugby have lost the power they once had in the hearts of the youngsters because the GAA are doing things really well. Tullamore are a relatively big club but in comparison to say the likes of amalgamation clubs like Vincents and Na Fianna, they wouldnt have as many numbers playing at the youngest ages. Tullamore just look after their players better, lose less players by putting in B teams in competitions when they can in a way that serves them best, and keep lads going through underage.

Some of the clubs in the likes of the amalgamated clubs maybe need to look at how their underage super clubs are run in terms of serving them in terms of bringing players through. The likes of Na Fianna and others have massive numbers at Go Games level for years but by the time they reach minor, they have lost a lot more than half their players and the adult clubs in these areas pay the price. I know Bord Na nOg were trying to get some of these adult clubs to take some ownership of their own player development where adult clubs would enter go games teams on their own at the youngest levels but to date, adult clubs have not taken up the offer and have left all development responsibility to the amalgamation club. This is not serving Offaly well, but more importantly, it is not serving the smaller clubs of these areas well in long term.

These clubs are better off having their younger talent playing in B level with maybe 2 clubs joining and getting 10 lads through to adult level than trying to win an A championship with a 4 club super amalgamation where only 3 or 4 lads from their club see game time through development years and make it through to adult level. The second level schools and development squads can fill the role of the higher end development opportunities in terms of getting higher grade of football. This has been an issue for a good few years now and young players who could play a bit, stop playing because they dont get a chance to play in a 4 club amalgamated team like they would in a two club team - look at the impact it has had on the St Manchans clubs at adult level with Ballycumber, Tubber Erin Rovers and Doon falling down pecking order. They were way better served by the Ballycumber Tubber, and DER Gaels amalgamations but some out there thought winning a minor A championship (that they never won) with a 4 club super amalgamation was the way forward and more important than adult club development or even survival.

The demographics will show that this is a major issue, particularly in clubs around Tullamore. Ideally, the likes of St Vincents and Na Fianna could split in two in some ages so that lads can get game time and all of the adult clubs in these areas would be way better off for it longer term. If the adult clubs are serious about improving, these are the things they need to be looking at. There are big numbers in some of the primary schools in these areas and it wouldnt take a lot for adult clubs to sort it out if they really wanted to try and get up to the likes of Tullamore and KK. Not doing so means they are actually cutting their own throats.

Going back to Tullamore, Cappincur comes right into the edge of town, as does Shamrocks coming right into Charleville on other side, Killeigh parish comes in very close too and Ballinamere Durrow wraps town on the other side and is part of Tullamore parish. Tullamore are not doing well because of the numbers they have. They are doing well because they take ownership in minding the ones they do have with good people and good structures in place to ensure they develop. I am fairly sure it is the same in Kilcormac. Maybe other adult clubs could learn something from that.

Are you seriously trying to argue that Tullamore having a population of 15,000 and growing all the time isn’t an advantage over clubs that have 500-1,000 and decreasing all the time?

Coaching, development and structures can only make up for so much in a club if there’s only a handful of kids being born in that area in a particular year.

The chasm is only growing wider and it’s almost impossible to see how any small club that previously competed at the top level whether it be Shannonbridge or Erin Rovers or who ever will ever be in a position to do so again.

[frankthetank]

So the solution to Tullamore and KkS dominance is to form a new club in Tullamore when there already is on in B/D there is an agreement in place that kids from the town if they wish to play with B/D there’s no issue as it’s the same parish.
Tullamore have there structures coaches S&c etc all in place the last 7/8 yrs Kk a bit longer than Tullamore . It’s time other other clubs start looking at themselves and stop blaming Tullamore and Kk or getting the county board to do something . Do it yerselves talk to Tullamore talk to KK ask them what have they done .
Not too long ago Tullamore were in B and losing in quarter finals at underage so it not always a given it’s down to hard work

Couldnt agree more. GAA in Tullamore was losing out to soccer and rugby not all that long ago. They were a mess in underage football and hurling and not making A finals, were in B in all hurling grades and some football grades. They got their underage in order by getting maybe 10-15 really good GAA people involved with a chunk of these still involved at adult and U20 level. They got their stuff together, developed a gym and got the young lads engaged with S&C from a young age and spending money wisely on games development in primary schools coaching and development to catch them early. Their success was nothing to do with being a big club with big numbers. Their hurling side has improved hugely too because of this development reaching a good few co underage hurling finals in recent years. In meantime soccer and rugby have lost the power they once had in the hearts of the youngsters because the GAA are doing things really well. Tullamore are a relatively big club but in comparison to say the likes of amalgamation clubs like Vincents and Na Fianna, they wouldnt have as many numbers playing at the youngest ages. Tullamore just look after their players better, lose less players by putting in B teams in competitions when they can in a way that serves them best, and keep lads going through underage.

Some of the clubs in the likes of the amalgamated clubs maybe need to look at how their underage super clubs are run in terms of serving them in terms of bringing players through. The likes of Na Fianna and others have massive numbers at Go Games level for years but by the time they reach minor, they have lost a lot more than half their players and the adult clubs in these areas pay the price. I know Bord Na nOg were trying to get some of these adult clubs to take some ownership of their own player development where adult clubs would enter go games teams on their own at the youngest levels but to date, adult clubs have not taken up the offer and have left all development responsibility to the amalgamation club. This is not serving Offaly well, but more importantly, it is not serving the smaller clubs of these areas well in long term.

These clubs are better off having their younger talent playing in B level with maybe 2 clubs joining and getting 10 lads through to adult level than trying to win an A championship with a 4 club super amalgamation where only 3 or 4 lads from their club see game time through development years and make it through to adult level. The second level schools and development squads can fill the role of the higher end development opportunities in terms of getting higher grade of football. This has been an issue for a good few years now and young players who could play a bit, stop playing because they dont get a chance to play in a 4 club amalgamated team like they would in a two club team - look at the impact it has had on the St Manchans clubs at adult level with Ballycumber, Tubber Erin Rovers and Doon falling down pecking order. They were way better served by the Ballycumber Tubber, and DER Gaels amalgamations but some out there thought winning a minor A championship (that they never won) with a 4 club super amalgamation was the way forward and more important than adult club development or even survival.

The demographics will show that this is a major issue, particularly in clubs around Tullamore. Ideally, the likes of St Vincents and Na Fianna could split in two in some ages so that lads can get game time and all of the adult clubs in these areas would be way better off for it longer term. If the adult clubs are serious about improving, these are the things they need to be looking at. There are big numbers in some of the primary schools in these areas and it wouldnt take a lot for adult clubs to sort it out if they really wanted to try and get up to the likes of Tullamore and KK. Not doing so means they are actually cutting their own throats.

Going back to Tullamore, Cappincur comes right into the edge of town, as does Shamrocks coming right into Charleville on other side, Killeigh parish comes in very close too and Ballinamere Durrow wraps town on the other side and is part of Tullamore parish. Tullamore are not doing well because of the numbers they have. They are doing well because they take ownership in minding the ones they do have with good people and good structures in place to ensure they develop. I am fairly sure it is the same in Kilcormac. Maybe other adult clubs could learn something from that.

Are you seriously trying to argue that Tullamore having a population of 15,000 and growing all the time isn’t an advantage over clubs that have 500-1,000 and decreasing all the time?

Coaching, development and structures can only make up for so much in a club if there’s only a handful of kids being born in that area in a particular year.

The chasm is only growing wider and it’s almost impossible to see how any small club that previously competed at the top level whether it be Shannonbridge or Erin Rovers or who ever will ever be in a position to do so again.

People who claim that other clubs need to get their “structures” up to par with Tullamore aren’t worth arguing with.

[Payperview1]

Can see both sides of argument in relation to Tullamore. In fairness to them, they always had the numbers but put huge work into their underage set up and are now reaping the rewards.
Also think they have a huge financial advantage in relation to other clubs. A lot easier get your structures right because of this. Have fantastic facilities available to them thanks to this and have guaranteed income every year with the o Connor Park lease agreement.

[jimbob17]

Couldnt agree more. GAA in Tullamore was losing out to soccer and rugby not all that long ago. They were a mess in underage football and hurling and not making A finals, were in B in all hurling grades and some football grades. They got their underage in order by getting maybe 10-15 really good GAA people involved with a chunk of these still involved at adult and U20 level. They got their stuff together, developed a gym and got the young lads engaged with S&C from a young age and spending money wisely on games development in primary schools coaching and development to catch them early. Their success was nothing to do with being a big club with big numbers. Their hurling side has improved hugely too because of this development reaching a good few co underage hurling finals in recent years. In meantime soccer and rugby have lost the power they once had in the hearts of the youngsters because the GAA are doing things really well. Tullamore are a relatively big club but in comparison to say the likes of amalgamation clubs like Vincents and Na Fianna, they wouldnt have as many numbers playing at the youngest ages. Tullamore just look after their players better, lose less players by putting in B teams in competitions when they can in a way that serves them best, and keep lads going through underage.

Some of the clubs in the likes of the amalgamated clubs maybe need to look at how their underage super clubs are run in terms of serving them in terms of bringing players through. The likes of Na Fianna and others have massive numbers at Go Games level for years but by the time they reach minor, they have lost a lot more than half their players and the adult clubs in these areas pay the price. I know Bord Na nOg were trying to get some of these adult clubs to take some ownership of their own player development where adult clubs would enter go games teams on their own at the youngest levels but to date, adult clubs have not taken up the offer and have left all development responsibility to the amalgamation club. This is not serving Offaly well, but more importantly, it is not serving the smaller clubs of these areas well in long term.

These clubs are better off having their younger talent playing in B level with maybe 2 clubs joining and getting 10 lads through to adult level than trying to win an A championship with a 4 club super amalgamation where only 3 or 4 lads from their club see game time through development years and make it through to adult level. The second level schools and development squads can fill the role of the higher end development opportunities in terms of getting higher grade of football. This has been an issue for a good few years now and young players who could play a bit, stop playing because they dont get a chance to play in a 4 club amalgamated team like they would in a two club team - look at the impact it has had on the St Manchans clubs at adult level with Ballycumber, Tubber Erin Rovers and Doon falling down pecking order. They were way better served by the Ballycumber Tubber, and DER Gaels amalgamations but some out there thought winning a minor A championship (that they never won) with a 4 club super amalgamation was the way forward and more important than adult club development or even survival.

The demographics will show that this is a major issue, particularly in clubs around Tullamore. Ideally, the likes of St Vincents and Na Fianna could split in two in some ages so that lads can get game time and all of the adult clubs in these areas would be way better off for it longer term. If the adult clubs are serious about improving, these are the things they need to be looking at. There are big numbers in some of the primary schools in these areas and it wouldnt take a lot for adult clubs to sort it out if they really wanted to try and get up to the likes of Tullamore and KK. Not doing so means they are actually cutting their own throats.

Going back to Tullamore, Cappincur comes right into the edge of town, as does Shamrocks coming right into Charleville on other side, Killeigh parish comes in very close too and Ballinamere Durrow wraps town on the other side and is part of Tullamore parish. Tullamore are not doing well because of the numbers they have. They are doing well because they take ownership in minding the ones they do have with good people and good structures in place to ensure they develop. I am fairly sure it is the same in Kilcormac. Maybe other adult clubs could learn something from that.

Are you seriously trying to argue that Tullamore having a population of 15,000 and growing all the time isn’t an advantage over clubs that have 500-1,000 and decreasing all the time?

Coaching, development and structures can only make up for so much in a club if there’s only a handful of kids being born in that area in a particular year.

The chasm is only growing wider and it’s almost impossible to see how any small club that previously competed at the top level whether it be Shannonbridge or Erin Rovers or who ever will ever be in a position to do so again.

People who claim that other clubs need to get their “structures” up to par with Tullamore aren’t worth arguing with.

The point is this. Tullamore's dominance is very recent. They won underage ad hoc for many years but they never dominated. They always had a numbers advantage. They were a mess at underage up to 7 or 8 years ago. They got their stuff together. They got good people involved. They held onto their youth talent and started winning minors and U20s that fed the senior team. That is to be commended.

In fact the GAA population in Tullamore is not all that big despite the size of the town. Within the 15000, there is a high proportion of people that'd never even look at a GAA game never mind play it or be involved. Tullamore have minded and maxed out on their numbers like never before and this year won a B championship with their second team at U15. 10 years ago, their first team at U15 were playing in B grade. The change is remarkable and it came down to good organisation and a commitment by a number of coaches to just try and do things the right way. That is what needs to be commended.

There is way more wasted talent in some of the super amalgamations than there is in Tullamore. If you look at the numbers in the primary schools, that'll tell you that. And in those areas, they are mostly country kids and don't have non-national families who are way less likely to play GAA in the same numbers.

Im not saying get structures to Tullamore's level. What I am saying is that if there are 140 boys at U8 &U7 grade in the schools across the Na Fianna / St Vincents clubs as an example, then are the likes of Raheen, Ballinagar, Clodiagh Gaels, Ballycommon, Cappincur Daingean or Kilclonfert well served if only 3 or 4 from each club get to play minor football for their club in a given year. The fall off in numbers in those areas is off the charts and there are more primary schools and some bigger primary schools in those areas than there are in Tullamore. Perhaps numbers are a bit smaller generally in Manchans and Broughans but the point still stands. Granted they are divided in a number of clubs but there is absolutely no reason why these super amalgamations cannot have B teams entered in underage grades, particularly at U13 and U15 level. And if this is the case, then the numbers are there for some clubs to join and have two club amalgamations rather than 4 team amalgamations.

The point is not about winning championships. The question is how many or what percentage of your Go Games players can you get through to be still playing at 18 years of age so that the likes of the Ballinagars and Raheens and the like are stronger at adult level? Unfortunately some people are missing the point in all of this. Underage championships are somewhat important but dont lose sight of the main goal - and that is to produce players for adult clubs and as many as possible for as long as possible. 10 years ago, Daingean were struggling big time and had very few represented on St Vincents teams. They started their mini maroons programme to get lads (and girls) started and since they have had a much higher percentage of players playing with St Vincents than before that -probably to detriment of other St Vincents clubs - and these are the guys that came through recently to help them move up to senior B and they are not far off winning senior B. What about extending that thought process into other clubs, like Shannonbridge and Doon are doing. What about just giving opportunities to young lads to play rather than 15 lads togging out for a super amalgamation team at u13 level and 25 lads sitting on the bench. It has been going on for too long and both Offaly and the adult clubs have paid a large price for that. What about maybe opening up your thinking lads.

[FlyOnTheWall]

Are you seriously trying to argue that Tullamore having a population of 15,000 and growing all the time isn’t an advantage over clubs that have 500-1,000 and decreasing all the time?

Coaching, development and structures can only make up for so much in a club if there’s only a handful of kids being born in that area in a particular year.

The chasm is only growing wider and it’s almost impossible to see how any small club that previously competed at the top level whether it be Shannonbridge or Erin Rovers or who ever will ever be in a position to do so again.

People who claim that other clubs need to get their “structures” up to par with Tullamore aren’t worth arguing with.

The point is this. Tullamore's dominance is very recent. They won underage ad hoc for many years but they never dominated. They always had a numbers advantage. They were a mess at underage up to 7 or 8 years ago. They got their stuff together. They got good people involved. They held onto their youth talent and started winning minors and U20s that fed the senior team. That is to be commended.

In fact the GAA population in Tullamore is not all that big despite the size of the town. Within the 15000, there is a high proportion of people that'd never even look at a GAA game never mind play it or be involved. Tullamore have minded and maxed out on their numbers like never before and this year won a B championship with their second team at U15. 10 years ago, their first team at U15 were playing in B grade. The change is remarkable and it came down to good organisation and a commitment by a number of coaches to just try and do things the right way. That is what needs to be commended.

There is way more wasted talent in some of the super amalgamations than there is in Tullamore. If you look at the numbers in the primary schools, that'll tell you that. And in those areas, they are mostly country kids and don't have non-national families who are way less likely to play GAA in the same numbers.

Im not saying get structures to Tullamore's level. What I am saying is that if there are 140 boys at U8 &U7 grade in the schools across the Na Fianna / St Vincents clubs as an example, then are the likes of Raheen, Ballinagar, Clodiagh Gaels, Ballycommon, Cappincur Daingean or Kilclonfert well served if only 3 or 4 from each club get to play minor football for their club in a given year. The fall off in numbers in those areas is off the charts and there are more primary schools and some bigger primary schools in those areas than there are in Tullamore. Perhaps numbers are a bit smaller generally in Manchans and Broughans but the point still stands. Granted they are divided in a number of clubs but there is absolutely no reason why these super amalgamations cannot have B teams entered in underage grades, particularly at U13 and U15 level. And if this is the case, then the numbers are there for some clubs to join and have two club amalgamations rather than 4 team amalgamations.

The point is not about winning championships. The question is how many or what percentage of your Go Games players can you get through to be still playing at 18 years of age so that the likes of the Ballinagars and Raheens and the like are stronger at adult level? Unfortunately some people are missing the point in all of this. Underage championships are somewhat important but dont lose sight of the main goal - and that is to produce players for adult clubs and as many as possible for as long as possible. 10 years ago, Daingean were struggling big time and had very few represented on St Vincents teams. They started their mini maroons programme to get lads (and girls) started and since they have had a much higher percentage of players playing with St Vincents than before that -probably to detriment of other St Vincents clubs - and these are the guys that came through recently to help them move up to senior B and they are not far off winning senior B. What about extending that thought process into other clubs, like Shannonbridge and Doon are doing. What about just giving opportunities to young lads to play rather than 15 lads togging out for a super amalgamation team at u13 level and 25 lads sitting on the bench. It has been going on for too long and both Offaly and the adult clubs have paid a large price for that. What about maybe opening up your thinking lads.

There you are again trying to make out that Tullamore having such a large population is actually a bad thing… Stop the bullshite.

You do realise that within every town there are people who have no interest in the GAA, it’s hardly unique to Tullamore and actually it’s a much bigger problem in Clara for example where soccer has become the dominant sport.

Tullamore have minded and maxed out on their numbers like never before

Most clubs in Offaly would bite your arm off for the opportunity to mind and max out on numbers but the reality is the numbers aren’t there in the first place.

In fact, it’s an absolute indictment on Tullamore that they allowed themselves fall into such poor shape for so many years.

It’s not an indictment on small clubs with no numbers that they now can’t compete with a behemoth, it’s a credit to the likes of Rhode that they were so successful for so long against all the odds.

Your non-national argument is also a bit of a nonsense too as 90%+ of families are still Irish and Tullamore now have a number of non-national players underage.

I spoke to someone involved in a club in Offaly the other day who said they only have 2 boys within their senior clubs area signed up to play at U6’s. You can bang on all you like about not having amalgamations but how are those 2 supposed to play games without 13 other teammates? That club could have the world’s most perfect structures in place but regardless the max they’ll have to show at the end of it is 2 players.

You can’t structures your way out of demographics.

[Superhans75]

I have cousins in mayo the belmullet area ect there numbers are so small at underage
Levels it's frightening no amount of amalgamation is going to help clubs will disappear it's the talk we're going to have to have within the gaa community about clubs boundaries. is the Parrish rule dead if the church has become irrelevant or there is no common local church or priest anymore.
I pity the person who decides to change
The system because of the flak they will face
But we can't keep kicking it under the bed .

[jimbob17]

People who claim that other clubs need to get their “structures” up to par with Tullamore aren’t worth arguing with.

The point is this. Tullamore's dominance is very recent. They won underage ad hoc for many years but they never dominated. They always had a numbers advantage. They were a mess at underage up to 7 or 8 years ago. They got their stuff together. They got good people involved. They held onto their youth talent and started winning minors and U20s that fed the senior team. That is to be commended.

In fact the GAA population in Tullamore is not all that big despite the size of the town. Within the 15000, there is a high proportion of people that'd never even look at a GAA game never mind play it or be involved. Tullamore have minded and maxed out on their numbers like never before and this year won a B championship with their second team at U15. 10 years ago, their first team at U15 were playing in B grade. The change is remarkable and it came down to good organisation and a commitment by a number of coaches to just try and do things the right way. That is what needs to be commended.

There is way more wasted talent in some of the super amalgamations than there is in Tullamore. If you look at the numbers in the primary schools, that'll tell you that. And in those areas, they are mostly country kids and don't have non-national families who are way less likely to play GAA in the same numbers.

Im not saying get structures to Tullamore's level. What I am saying is that if there are 140 boys at U8 &U7 grade in the schools across the Na Fianna / St Vincents clubs as an example, then are the likes of Raheen, Ballinagar, Clodiagh Gaels, Ballycommon, Cappincur Daingean or Kilclonfert well served if only 3 or 4 from each club get to play minor football for their club in a given year. The fall off in numbers in those areas is off the charts and there are more primary schools and some bigger primary schools in those areas than there are in Tullamore. Perhaps numbers are a bit smaller generally in Manchans and Broughans but the point still stands. Granted they are divided in a number of clubs but there is absolutely no reason why these super amalgamations cannot have B teams entered in underage grades, particularly at U13 and U15 level. And if this is the case, then the numbers are there for some clubs to join and have two club amalgamations rather than 4 team amalgamations.

The point is not about winning championships. The question is how many or what percentage of your Go Games players can you get through to be still playing at 18 years of age so that the likes of the Ballinagars and Raheens and the like are stronger at adult level? Unfortunately some people are missing the point in all of this. Underage championships are somewhat important but dont lose sight of the main goal - and that is to produce players for adult clubs and as many as possible for as long as possible. 10 years ago, Daingean were struggling big time and had very few represented on St Vincents teams. They started their mini maroons programme to get lads (and girls) started and since they have had a much higher percentage of players playing with St Vincents than before that -probably to detriment of other St Vincents clubs - and these are the guys that came through recently to help them move up to senior B and they are not far off winning senior B. What about extending that thought process into other clubs, like Shannonbridge and Doon are doing. What about just giving opportunities to young lads to play rather than 15 lads togging out for a super amalgamation team at u13 level and 25 lads sitting on the bench. It has been going on for too long and both Offaly and the adult clubs have paid a large price for that. What about maybe opening up your thinking lads.

There you are again trying to make out that Tullamore having such a large population is actually a bad thing… Stop the bullshite.

You do realise that within every town there are people who have no interest in the GAA, it’s hardly unique to Tullamore and actually it’s a much bigger problem in Clara for example where soccer has become the dominant sport.

Tullamore have minded and maxed out on their numbers like never before

Most clubs in Offaly would bite your arm off for the opportunity to mind and max out on numbers but the reality is the numbers aren’t there in the first place.

In fact, it’s an absolute indictment on Tullamore that they allowed themselves fall into such poor shape for so many years.

It’s not an indictment on small clubs with no numbers that they now can’t compete with a behemoth, it’s a credit to the likes of Rhode that they were so successful for so long against all the odds.

Your non-national argument is also a bit of a nonsense too as 90%+ of families are still Irish and Tullamore now have a number of non-national players underage.

I spoke to someone involved in a club in Offaly the other day who said they only have 2 boys within their senior clubs area signed up to play at U6’s. You can bang on all you like about not having amalgamations but how are those 2 supposed to play games without 13 other teammates? That club could have the world’s most perfect structures in place but regardless the max they’ll have to show at the end of it is 2 players.

You can’t structures your way out of demographics.

Listen I'm not from or involved in Tullamore GAA. I said they have a population advantage. What more do you want. I also said they look after their players who are actually smaller in number than some of the super amalgamations. The only reason Tullamore are winning underage is because they are well organised and keep their lads going in a way they didnt do previously. Yes it was badly done in fits and starts previously but not any more. Credit them for that. Some of their teams that won minor champs recently never won at U13 or U15. Some of these super amalgamations are getting to A finals and winning at U13 and by time they hit minor, are in the B competitions with half the number of players. Now can you explain that? That is nothing to do with Tullamore. Why aren't these super amalgamation clubs more dominant? Why are so many young players falling off the radar in these areas. St Broughans had 7 or 8 lads play co minor football for Offaly this year and still cant make a co minor final. Explain that.

I spoke to a lad only yesterday who was involved in one of the super amalgamations some years ago - a parent of a player who was a decent player but got little or no game time in his U11 year. The team had 43 lads togged out for an U12 A co final (then it was U12). When the same group were minor, they had 17 players in total and were playing at B level. For every example of small rural clubs, and that is an issue, there is an example of a super amalgamation losing too many players from 13-18 because they are not developed or given opportunity.

Rhode did well because they maxed out on their talent at underage. They did savage work with underage 20 years ago. They took their eye off the ball a small bit but they are coming again with decent underage teams and credit to them for that.

You say 'Your non-national argument is also a bit of a nonsense too as 90%+ of families are still Irish and Tullamore now have a number of non-national players underage.'
That point is very relevant and goes for other minorities too. The GAA population of Tullamore is probably 10-15% of the population. That is a fact. The GAA population of rural Ireland demographic is 60-70% id imagine, and that isnt to nullify Tullamore advantage. They do have that advantage but I guarantee you that more boys could play for Na Fianna or St Vincents at GoGames level than could for Tullamore.

Nobody has an issue with clubs amalgamating when there are 2 players only. The problem is that these amalgamations should be for teams who NEED to amalgamate, not so that a couple of lads with notions can get their sons to have a chance of winning a minor A championship, while 20 other lads who couldnt make an amalgamation team at U13 level get no football, get left aside, and eventually quit as a result. Parents and coaches have had their time playing. The decisions of GAA organisers should be done to serve the best interests of the children and the majority, not the adults and the minority

You shouldn't hemorrhage players needlessly into low playing numbers with poor coaching and organisation.

[SizeFive2024]

Tullamore or Ferbane? Who wins

[Tar Man]

I have to say that I agree with JimBob to a point with regards to the amalgamations - a lot of the bigger clubs within these amalgamations are abdicating responsibility by leaving the development of the youngsters to the amalgamations rather than doing the work themselves. IMO it should be a rule that amalgamations are only used in exceptional circumstances i.e. when it's impossible to field a team.

Now where I disagree with JimBob is with regards to Tullamore. Yes they are maximising the talent that they currently have but at what cost. When they have a Registration evening for say U8's - about 120 kids will show up and register. Within 6-8 weeks that number will have dwindled to about 30-40. The other 80-90 players are lost to the GAA forever (in terms of player, administrator or supporter) and none of these would be in the top 30-40 at that particular time. The coaches nor facilities cannot handle 120 kids and so they're more than happy for this to happen.

The Participation levels within the County are well down on yesteryear - a lot of this is due to migration from rural parts of the county to more urban parts. The County Board recognise this and that was one of the reasons for the Amalgamations Decree earlier in the year. But the Tullamore Nettle will have to be grasped. The underage club will have to be split and maybe into 3-4 parts. Make the coaches have to keep all kids involved like what has to happen in the smaller clubs. This would benefit Tullamore in the long run with much more players coming into the Senior Club whereby they should be able to field a team at every level. This route would also take a lot of investment in new facilities but this will be needed if we are to prosper as a County.

[del]

The numbers re Tullamore are completely false . They have never had 120 at u8 . That’s a fact I know what I’m talking about max was 70 which was 6/7 yrs ago

[Tar Man]

The numbers re Tullamore are completely false . They have never had 120 at u8 . That’s a fact I know what I’m talking about max was 70 which was 6/7 yrs ago

So you're telling me that at any year there are less than 70 boys in the Tullamore Catchment Area? My figures have come directly from an official in the County Board who are currently looking at why participation levels are down in the County.