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Offaly Hero wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 11:07 pm

private joker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 9:55 pm

Géill Slí wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 9:15 pm Agree, no place for that sort of carry on. The game itself was played hard and fair for the most part, got a small bit feisty near the end, I was on the opposite side of the pitch so it was hard to see what triggered the fight at the end. At that stage just accept that the better team on the day won, and shake hands.
KK were excellent in the first half but definitely struggled physically in the second half. No matter what way you look at it, you can’t shortcut the years of strength and conditioning work that the top Ballyhale players have put in, and that told in the end, Eoin Cody and Adrian Mullen in particular turning the game for them. I don’t have the stats but Ballyhale hit 10 points in about 18 minutes, and that was the winning of the game.
Thought Jordan Quinn had an excellent game on TJ, and Conor Slevin hit I think 4 tremendous long range frees. Charlie Mitchell was the best of the forwards, Adam Screeney will be disappointed with 2 mis-hit frees that should have been converted. The ref didn’t give KK much, and there was one very harsh call for a throw ball when KK might have been through for a goal chance.
All in all, a good game of hurling. I suspect KK might have been beaten by the eventual All-Ireland champions two years in a row.

100 % threw the ball. Watch it back. About time reffes started pulling throw balls. Kk were unlucky not to be further ahead at Ht.
Not sure about Declan laffan. He's old school win your own battles. I don't think the loss of Shane hand is the reason for kk drop in form such as it is. The loss of Tony glesson would be more of a reason in the highs of 2024.

Agreed that Tony Gleeson was the major loss for KK this year. I hope we can have him back involved with Offaly sometime.

KK gave it everything today. Ultimately however, they were blown away by the physicality and athleticism of Ballyhale in the second half. As they were by Na Fianna last year.
This is the area that some of their young players must improve on if they are to progress with their club and especially Offaly. At least they have an example to look up to in this regard in their own club in Charlie Mitchell..

Tony glesson is with the offaly seniors this year

On the actual game itself, which was one where Kilcormac-Killoughey hurled very well for 30 minutes but - in my opinion anyway - that high tempo took a lot of out of them and they certainly needed to go to the bench a lot earlier than they did. Given the circumstances in which Declan Laffan was recruited, he'll have known better than anyone that the bar was placed higher than just retaining the Offaly championship, they needed to make an impression in Leinster. And while a four-point defeat to the most successful club in Ireland, playing in Nowlan Park, is a very creditable result and not on the face of it a stick that you could use to beat a man, the failure to use what is a good bench earlier makes no sense to me. There were players out there who were visibly flagging and not impacting the game as they needed to, and I marked down three separate Ballyhale points in my notepad where a KK tackler just didn't get contact through lack of zip or sharpness, and that was all about fatigue - in the first half, they were making those hits and making them count.

Overall, it was a creditable loss to a team that in my opinion, will win the All-Ireland. Hurler for hurler, Ballygunner are probably a match for Shamrocks but in a straight knockout game between those two clubs, I'm marginally leaning towards Ballyhale to find a way to win that game, since it will be outside of Croke Park in a semi-final. Put it in HQ on Summer-standard ground, and yep, I'd marginally favour Ballygunner to edge it.

In no particular order, other points....

(1) Absolutely, the lack of heft is an issue, but don't forget that the younger players (i.e. most of them) will grow older and get stronger. Obviously the Kavanaghs, James Mahon, Adam Screeney, these lads are never going to be six foot behemoths, but there are others who have to scope to go that direction, if they are committed enough to put the work into their physique. One or two is all that is needed, so that's not the looming crisis that some people make it out to be, I think.

It's not that the current big lads are going to fall off a cliff. James Gorman has had good games and not so good games this year but Conor Mahon has been consistently effective and even today, up against a very tough defender in Joey Holden, he scored one point, won a penalty and had another couple of good plays. If he wants to hang around, he'll be well able to play that sort of role again.

(2) Jordan Quinn was absolutely excellent, and 100%, he should get a call up to the Offaly panel. His game is not built on straight line speed and even if it's just as an alternate for Ciarán Burke, or an option when you line out against a team with multiple big threats in the full forward line, he would add a lot of value for the next year or two.

(3) On the positive side, I thought James Mahon and Charlie Mitchell were downright excellent today as well, with Brecon Kavanagh doing well in tight spots as he usually does. Conor Slevin misplaced his first puckout and otherwise was very good too.

(4) The decision to move Adam Screeney outfield, I'm not saying it worked, but the idea was to have a "twin towers" threat inside and I've no problem with trying something like that. The ploy made sense for a while but like the substitutions thing, I think the change around when it wasn't working as well as was hoped didn't come quick enough. Likewise there was a post above saying that Brecon should have been detailed to Eoin Cody. I'm not going to say that was a no-brainer but from ten minutes in, it was clear that Eoin Cody was the only Shamrocks forward making an impact and I never felt that KK got to grips with it, or even tried anything innovative to curtail him. Even in the second half when Adrian Mullen found his feet and Paddy Mullen chipped in, Cody was still the main man.

(5) The reason the throw ball felt like a harsh call was not that it was clearly wrong, it was that - as is often the case - there were around 50 dubious handpasses that could have been pinged at various stages, from both teams, and the referee sent a clear message to the players that he wasn't going to police it too rigidly. To then call it for the first time in the 58th minute to cut off what was K-K's only sliver of an opening for a goal in the entire half, then for TJ to knock the subsequent free over the bar from his own half, was cruel bad luck. If a referee wants to let the game run and to blow the whistle as rarely as possible, then the thing to do is either ignore throws entirely, or else ping one or two at the start to keep the teams honest, then let them off from then on.

(6) I think Shane Hand was fairly hard done by and he proved again this year with Tullamore that he is a very capable manager. He'll win more championships if he finds himself in a dressing room where the talent is there to do so. Nonetheless, I don't think it's fair to say that KK "clearly went backwards" in 2025. The team that played Belmont in the first round had five starters that didn't start today, and had five more of the remaining ten playing in a different line to where they did today. Only Slevin, James Mahon, Spain, Hand and Gorman were in the same positions. Hanging the team over that result, or even a draw against Shinrone in the final round when they had already qualified, seems a bit excessive to me.

You can't say that KK were outstanding against Coolderry in the 2024 semi-final and very good in a high-standard final that year without also acknowledging that KK obliterated Ballinamere in a game where the pressure was on in September of this year, and their hurling in the second quarter of the 2025 county final against Shinrone was sublime. Then, when Shinrone rallied, KK didn't stumble over the line, they delivered a decisive finish.

KK won two away games in Leinster which is never easy but they were against Mount Leinster and Castletown Geoghegan, both of which lost today to Kildare and Laois opposition. Yes, CTG beat Thomastown, but there's a world of difference between a Thomastown team celebrating their first ever Kilkenny SHC and a Ballyhale team that has nearly a 50% strike rate of turning Kilkenny senior titles into All-Ireland wins. I think the 2025 KK team also wins those games, and I think the 2024 KK would also have lost to that Ballyhale group today.

This isn't an attempt to defend Laffan and it certainly isn't trying to diminish Shane Hand, but I don't think it's inarguable that KK have gone backwards in the last 12 months. They were a good team in 2024, good enough to win Offaly but not good enough to win Leinster, and the same description applies in 2025 imho.

Now they haven't gone forward either in any appreciable way, and it remains to be seen where they go from here in their bid to do that.

Not his first incident to be involved in unfortunately it wouldn't be his last. The eejet should 100% be banned from all games.

faithfulfanatic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 10:13 pm The individual in question has nothing to do with Kilcormac Killoughey, they refuse to give him membership and there is very little else they can do.
I hope the ban from grounds he gets comes from a court of law.
If it is just the GAA/county board then he will show up at club games and cause damage when a steward tries to refuse entry.

You'd actually feel sorry for KK having to deal with/police that kind of scenario. I'd imagine most clubs, if not all, have their fair share of vocal/aggressive/antagonistic supporters but by and large, it's manageable.
This guy seems to be next level altogether in terms of difficulty.

FJB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 3:51 pm

faithfulfanatic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 10:13 pm The individual in question has nothing to do with Kilcormac Killoughey, they refuse to give him membership and there is very little else they can do.
I hope the ban from grounds he gets comes from a court of law.
If it is just the GAA/county board then he will show up at club games and cause damage when a steward tries to refuse entry.

You'd actually feel sorry for KK having to deal with/police that kind of scenario. I'd imagine most clubs, if not all, have their fair share of vocal/aggressive/antagonistic supporters but by and large, it's manageable.
This guy seems to be next level altogether in terms of difficulty.

Allowing him to attend any game is a danger to so many people. In the thick of a row, seeing a person in the team colours pick up a hurl and swing it or throw full on punches escalates a fight and things can get so far out of hand in an instant. He has no place inside a ground and hopefully he is not seen near one again. I would go so far as to have the ref stop any future game and not let it continue if he is seen inside a ground.
Ballyhale Number 19 was the main instigator and could easily face a ban for a forearm to the back/neck of a KK player. I am sure Shefflin was raging at him for getting involved.

frankthetank wrote: ↑Sun Nov 09, 2025 9:20 pm There's a lot to unravel about today and K-K's season in general.

Many managers come onto post game interviews and ream off game statistics because A) They think it makes them sound clever but more importantly B) they are actually unable to decipher the game in front of them because so many of them are bluffing, At the end of the day the only statistic that counts is results.

And by any results metric K/K have gone backwards in 2025 compared to their 2024 iteration. In the 2024 group stage K/K won all 4 games with an outrageous score difference of plus 73. (Interestingly K/K and Ballinamere were the only 2 teams to have a positive score difference after last year's group stage) Which leaves an average winning margin of a whopping 18 points.

Then in the 2024 semi final they obliterated Coolderry by 19 points and won one of the best, if not the best finals in recent memory.

A very successful Leinster campaign followed where they dogged out 2 fantastically hard fought results on the road to make a Leinster Final where eventual All Ireland winners Na Fianna were just too good. No shame in that.

Fast forward to this year then where they ended up drawing 2 group games and their score difference dropped to plus 36. A drop of 50%. And the average winning margin over the 4 games dropped to 9 points. Down from 19 in 2024.

An excellent Q-Final performance followed when they were obviously very fired up vs Ballinamere and then a lacklustre semi final performance vs Birr. The final ebbed and flowed and the Shinrone's lack of Ciaran Cleary in the FF position for the first half could haunt them for a while.

And then today down in Kilkenny the writing was on the wall after 40 minutes and there only looked one winner from a long way out.

So looking at the bigger picture where do K/K go from here? They are going to win more Offaly titles over the next number of years. That's a given. But provincial honours are won in testing physical conditions and to me it seems, K/K over the next few years are going to be even less prepared for that than they are now. Damien Kilmartin, Conor Mahon and James Gorman being replaced by Ter Guinan, Alex Kavanagh and Leigh Kavanagh adds pace, skill and energy but it definitely decreases the team's physical prowess.

Also is Declan Laffan the man for the job? Well Shane Hand had a much better 2024 than Laffan had 2025 for a start. I don't think anyone can argue that. And just a few little things are red flags for me. The positioning of Enda Grogan at right half back today rather that left half back for a start. He naturally needs to hurl as a 7 and is much less effective as a 5. His lack of instruction to Brecon Kavanagh to actually mark Eoin Cody today is another. Selecting players who are clearly not in form is a third. And his slow use of a seemingly stacked bench will surely be held against him aswell. He'll get a 2nd year but have they progressed under him. Definitely not in my opinion.

And finally onto the "supporter". I would urge K/K and Offaly GAA to be pro active here. He assaulted a player on the pitch. End of. The maximum ban from K/K and Offaly games that can be given to him needs to be put in place. I was actually ashamed that he was the same county of me when I saw it and I actually hoped Adrian Mullen left him seeing stars. We can have no tolerance for this and make no mistake we have tolerated this for too long.

A lot of good points in that post. If KK were to lose their county title in 2026 or beyond, who is most likely to replace them?
That individual who got involved in ‘the affray’ is not from the Kilcormac/ Killoughey club.

Lone Shark wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 12:07 am
I don't think it's fair to say that KK "clearly went backwards" in 2025.

I clearly said "By any results metric K/K clearly went backwards." What you did there LS is akin to the Charlie Kirk opponents posting videos of him with absolutely no context.

In Offaly in 2024: P6 W6 D0 L0. Win rate 100%

In Leinster in 2024: P3 W2 D0 L0. Win rate 66%

Compared to

In Offaly in 2025: P7 W5 D2 L0 Win rate 71.42%

In Leinster in 2025: P1 W0 D0 L1. Win rate 0%

That in a results based metric is going backwards.

As you said yourself Declan Laffin wasn't brought in to win Offaly championships. So going by RESULTS the change of management hasn't had the desired effect the K/K executive hoped it would.

Here's a quick analysis of K/K's games post Offaly SHC following their 7 senior hurling championship successes.

Vs Wexford clubs: P4 W3 D0 L1

Vs Westmeath clubs: P3 W3 D0 L0

Vs Carlow clubs: P3 W3 D0 L0

Vs Kilkenny clubs: P3 W0 D0 L3

Vs Laois clubs: P2 W2 D0 L0

Vs Dublin clubs: P2 W0 D0 L2

Vs Tipperary clubs: P1 W1 D0 L0

Vs Galway clubs: P1 W0 D0 L1

Kilkenny hurling really is an issue for Offaly hurling at all levels. Not to mention our failure to get to grips with the running game employed in Dublin in general.

A lot of good points in that post. If KK were to lose their county title in 2026 or beyond, who is most likely to replace them?
That individual who got involved in ‘the affray’ is not from the Kilcormac/ Killoughey club.
[/quote]

Only thing on this clown. The courts need to stop him from going to matches, numerous rows he has started or tried to start, he probably should have been dealt with by the guards after last year’s junior qf. A ‘lifetime GAA ban’ will do no good, you’ll see him in fields and on top of walls. Think he lives inside catchment of neighbouring club but he is most definitely a KK man.

KK definitely have bigger goals than Offaly, which they should. It’s been said for the last 4 years, but they really need to get their younger lads physically stronger. It’s proper winter hurling, even the nicest of November afternoons will still have a wet sod. All their best performers yesterday wouldn’t exactly be ‘sunshine hurlers’ in my eyes, it was their more physical players that stood out, lead by the excellent Jordan Quinn. Mitchell has really filled out and it’s paying dividends for his game, they need to look no further than him. They’ll never be monsters of men, but look at Mikey Butler from Kilkenny. Not the tallest, but incredibly physical.

frankthetank wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 8:04 pm Here's a quick analysis of K/K's games post Offaly SHC following their 7 senior hurling championship successes.

Vs Wexford clubs: P4 W3 D0 L1

Vs Westmeath clubs: P3 W3 D0 L0

Vs Carlow clubs: P3 W3 D0 L0

Vs Kilkenny clubs: P3 W0 D0 L3

Vs Laois clubs: P2 W2 D0 L0

Vs Dublin clubs: P2 W0 D0 L2

Vs Tipperary clubs: P1 W1 D0 L0

Vs Galway clubs: P1 W0 D0 L1

Kilkenny hurling really is an issue for Offaly hurling at all levels. Not to mention our failure to get to grips with the running game employed in Dublin in general.

Kilkenny hurling is an issue for every single hurling county

Ballyhales Adrian Mullen is to miss the rest of championship due to injury sustained at the end of the match. Probably the late enough slap down on his hand just on FT

private joker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 12:24 am Ballyhales Adrian Mullen is to miss the rest of championship due to injury sustained at the end of the match. Probably the late enough slap down on his hand just on FT

Mullen was lucky Mono didn't connect with those punches, injury would be the least of his worries

private joker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 12:24 am Ballyhales Adrian Mullen is to miss the rest of championship due to injury sustained at the end of the match. Probably the late enough slap down on his hand just on FT

Looked like that what started the flare up. We Were sitting right in front of where it happened. He'll be a big loss to ballyhale

frankthetank wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 7:50 pm I clearly said "By any results metric K/K clearly went backwards." What you did there LS is akin to the Charlie Kirk opponents posting videos of him with absolutely no context.

In Offaly in 2024: P6 W6 D0 L0. Win rate 100%

In Leinster in 2024: P3 W2 D0 L0. Win rate 66%

Compared to

In Offaly in 2025: P7 W5 D2 L0 Win rate 71.42%

In Leinster in 2025: P1 W0 D0 L1. Win rate 0%

That in a results based metric is going backwards.

As you said yourself Declan Laffin wasn't brought in to win Offaly championships. So going by RESULTS the change of management hasn't had the desired effect the K/K executive hoped it would.

If you don't understand the difference between playing decent sides like Mount Leinster Rangers and Castletown Geoghegan as opposed to playing a team like Ballyhale Shamrocks, I don't know what to tell you.

Lone Shark wrote: ↑Tue Nov 11, 2025 12:29 pm

frankthetank wrote: ↑Mon Nov 10, 2025 7:50 pm I clearly said "By any results metric K/K clearly went backwards." What you did there LS is akin to the Charlie Kirk opponents posting videos of him with absolutely no context.

In Offaly in 2024: P6 W6 D0 L0. Win rate 100%

In Leinster in 2024: P3 W2 D0 L0. Win rate 66%

Compared to

In Offaly in 2025: P7 W5 D2 L0 Win rate 71.42%

In Leinster in 2025: P1 W0 D0 L1. Win rate 0%

That in a results based metric is going backwards.

As you said yourself Declan Laffin wasn't brought in to win Offaly championships. So going by RESULTS the change of management hasn't had the desired effect the K/K executive hoped it would.

If you don't understand the difference between playing decent sides like Mount Leinster Rangers and Castletown Geoghegan as opposed to playing a team like Ballyhale Shamrocks, I don't know what to tell you.

Castletown Geoghegan hammered the Kilkenny champions in Leinster last year