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Assuming a two-week gap between rounds 4 and 5, and another fortnight between round 5 and the quarter-finals, it also leaves that team who don't play in round 5 a four-week gap between their final group match and the quarter-final, if they qualify. That also more-or-less eliminates the likelihood of playing three rounds pre-summer. Doing that would give two clubs just a single group match post-summer and prior to the knockout stages.

Radio3 have followed up to say the championship will revert to 12 SFC teams and 12 IFC teams in 2013. That means there will be no relegation next year.

Lone Shark wrote:Midlands Radio 3 have just announced that Shamrocks are to play intermediate in 2012, which I presume has come out from the county board meeting. I had heard this was the county board line, but as far as I was aware Shamrocks were querying it - whether they were going all out with an appeal or not I couldn't tell you.

It makes a bit of a farce of the championship though - eleven teams? If we're still going to have quarter finals, it's a big advantage to be drawn in the five team group. Also, whoever has the bye week last has a bit of a disadvantage since other teams could know what they have to do to go through. I know it will be random, but it's still not ideal.

I wonder what's the plan for 2013 - are we going to try and get back to 12, go down to 10, or stay at 11? I presume we'll wait till October next year to decide that.

Lone Shark wrote:Midlands Radio 3 have just announced that Shamrocks are to play intermediate in 2012, which I presume has come out from the county board meeting. I had heard this was the county board line, but as far as I was aware Shamrocks were querying it - whether they were going all out with an appeal or not I couldn't tell you.

It makes a bit of a farce of the championship though - eleven teams? If we're still going to have quarter finals, it's a big advantage to be drawn in the five team group. Also, whoever has the bye week last has a bit of a disadvantage since other teams could know what they have to do to go through. I know it will be random, but it's still not ideal.

I wonder what's the plan for 2013 - are we going to try and get back to 12, go down to 10, or stay at 11? I presume we'll wait till October next year to decide that.

No as far as I know there will be no appeal. They were requesting to stay Senior as the option was there with Rhode winning the intermediate. However I dont think they went to the meeting with any great confidence.

The general feeling im getting from speaking to a few people is they will definately struggle to field a team now as a few more retirements can be guaranteed after last nights ruling and a few more wont bother playing.

If what you say is true and the club is reacting so badly to going down, then paradoxically, I think that is the perfect statement for why they needed to go down. For whatever reason, Shamrocks club seems to be unable to win championships. They've bottled so many finals that they need to freshen things up and if there are guys there whose commitment is so watery that playing intermediate football as opposed to senior is their reason for walking, then they need to start from scratch and try and win something with players who are committed to playing through thick and thin.

There is no way that there aren't enough lads in Rahan/Mucklagh/The Island to field one good team and one half decent junior team. If they play like they did against Tubber they would be very competitive, all the more so next year since Rhode will be banjaxed due to having to promote so many footballers to senior. Young lads like Johnny McEvoy and Johnny O'Toole will be eligible for adult football next year and have the ability to add something, and just maybe they might win that all important medal that the club needs so badly.

Relegation is a huge blow to a club that doesn't have good young players coming up along the line to freshen things up. Doon and Shannonbridge both went down a few years ago and due to a lack of numbers, they have their work cut out for them getting out of intermediate. On the other hand, Edenderry took the challenge on and used the opportunity to create a shift in momentum in the club and look where they are now. Shamrocks have the size to replicate that - it'll be a huge disappointment if a lack of will is their undoing.

I thought with Rhode winning the intermediate, that Shamrocks would be able to stay Senior, since no team is coming up.

Was it known before the beginning of the year, that the bottom place senior team would be relegated no matter what happened in intermediate i.e. if Brigid's had won, next years senior would be 12 teams, but if Rhode 2nd team won, next years Senior would be 11 teams?

Well done to Croghan on their win yesterday, great to see themselves and Cappincur progressing along. They play Greystones in the semi.

Lone Shark wrote:If what you say is true and the club is reacting so badly to going down, then paradoxically, I think that is the perfect statement for why they needed to go down. For whatever reason, Shamrocks club seems to be unable to win championships. They've bottled so many finals that they need to freshen things up and if there are guys there whose commitment is so watery that playing intermediate football as opposed to senior is their reason for walking, then they need to start from scratch and try and win something with players who are committed to playing through thick and thin.

There is no way that there aren't enough lads in Rahan/Mucklagh/The Island to field one good team and one half decent junior team. If they play like they did against Tubber they would be very competitive, all the more so next year since Rhode will be banjaxed due to having to promote so many footballers to senior. Young lads like Johnny McEvoy and Johnny O'Toole will be eligible for adult football next year and have the ability to add something, and just maybe they might win that all important medal that the club needs so badly.

Relegation is a huge blow to a club that doesn't have good young players coming up along the line to freshen things up. Doon and Shannonbridge both went down a few years ago and due to a lack of numbers, they have their work cut out for them getting out of intermediate. On the other hand, Edenderry took the challenge on and used the opportunity to create a shift in momentum in the club and look where they are now. Shamrocks have the size to replicate that - it'll be a huge disappointment if a lack of will is their undoing.

They dont have the players, simple as. They pulled out of the junior championship this year because they couldnt field a team. 50% of their senior team played junior the year previous, so obviously that was a making up numbers exercise. Their minors pulled out of the championship because they couldnt field a team. Any bit of talent that has come through over the last few years has gone away to soccer and other sports or clubs or just packed in sport altogether.

The few good footballers they had this year have been around a long time and could hardly be blamed in having no more interest in fighting a battle on their own. Yes you are correct they probably deserved to beat Tubber on the night but it was a disastrous year. The players are just not there.

Not buying that for a second - just to be clear first of all, I didn't say they "deserved" to beat Tubber. I said if they played like that all year, they wouldn't have been in that situation. I was delighted Tubber won because on the basis of the year as a whole, they were more deserving of senior status.

But crucially, what you describe is not "the players aren't there" - it's "the players won't play". Aren't there is what you see in a club like Doon or Shannonbridge at the moment. They literally are rounding up every available body in the parish and they're still short in a few key spots. If you had a London Irish style team called "Australia Doons" they'd be a very strong outfit. That's not the same at all as gone playing soccer or packed in sport altogether. I'm not saying Shamrocks don't have those cases too, but there is obviously something wrong in the club that so many people don't want to be part of it. I can guess to a certain extent, but that has to be turned around. The prospect of a success is a big part of that and the fact remains that next year, Shamrocks are in a competition that they have the ability to win. That should concentrate the minds, and if it doesn't, the club needs to dig deeper and find out why.

No Lone shark, the players just are not there. There is a gap between players currently aged 17 to 22. Not only this year have they failed to field teams but the last couple of years failed to field under 21 teams. That is just a numbers problem. This problem is only being highlighted now when some of the older players are retiring like Kelly, Coughlans, Monaghan etc etc.

I have mentioned other sports because a handful of potentially good players have given the likes of Soccer priority. They still come and go to GAA but your not getting as much as you should from them. that's an issue but its not the biggest problem. If the numbers above were there you could afford to be like Edenderry and say good luck to ye boys and move on without them. These are "the wont play players" that you refer too. They are not the big issue.

Emigration. You paint the picture that the likes of Doon are being worst hit. Shamrocks had a number of very good footballers missing because of working abroad this season. That's another big issue. If they were at home this year there is no doubt Shamrocks would not of had any problems with relegation. So to be fair about it they are similar to the likes of Doon in that regard as are alot of clubs unfortunately. But the bottom line is this can still be covered for if you have what is mentioned in the top paragraph.

I'm struggling to get my head around that. Lads don't emigrate at 20, usually. One or two might, but not most. Plus, the club managed to field an under-21 hurling team this year, and fielded a good under 21 team, complete with selectors who were well able to lock opposition teams out of their own dressing room, a couple of years ago. Why are those hurlers not playing football? Anyway, Rahan, Mucklagh and The Island are big areas - you can't tell me that there aren't 20 lads in the parish born in the years 1991-1994 to field an under 21 side this year and make up the numbers on adult teams. On average Rahan and Mucklagh national schools would have what, 15-20 lads every year between them? If the club can't sell itself to most of those kids, then they're only kidding themselves if they're turning around and saying "the numbers aren't there".

Areas like Doon, Shannonbridge, Croghan, Kilclonfert and Tubber all manage two teams - sometimes by getting a few less than stellar athletes to tog out, but they always manage. For a club the size of Shamrocks to fail to do so is not numbers, it's the fact that the club isn't central or relevant, and that needs to be addressed. Which leads me back to my previous point - a good way of going about that would be to actually win something, and this intermediate title would be very winnable.

I cannot even try give you numbers as Im not from the area originally. I know some of the lads fairly well who have been involved with underage and they have said that there is a gap there where numbers are very very low. Whereas from 16 year olds down is pretty decent numbers wise.
But the facts are they couldnt field a minor team in either code and being more a hurling man I went to some u21 games in recent years where they could not field a team. Numbers have to be pretty low if that is the case.

Of course a few players here and there wont play due to no interest in GAA but I am sure that is everywhere.

As regards emigration, who said anything about 20 year olds emigrating. The lads that have emigrated are in their mid 20's at least.

The intermediate is winnable yes, but the lack of winning an adult title cant be blamed for not being able to field underage teams. They were in a finals or semi final most years in Senior football for the last 12 years. That should have boosted interest. I cant see an intermediate title causing that much of a lift.
you are right, it is winnable, but I dont think it will happen. Could be very similar to the way Doon and Shannonbridge have gone.

Plain of the Herbs wrote:Assuming a two-week gap between rounds 4 and 5, and another fortnight between round 5 and the quarter-finals, it also leaves that team who don't play in round 5 a four-week gap between their final group match and the quarter-final, if they qualify. That also more-or-less eliminates the likelihood of playing three rounds pre-summer. Doing that would give two clubs just a single group match post-summer and prior to the knockout stages.

Radio3 have followed up to say the championship will revert to 12 SFC teams and 12 IFC teams in 2013. That means there will be no relegation next year.

Lone Shark wrote:Midlands Radio 3 have just announced that Shamrocks are to play intermediate in 2012, which I presume has come out from the county board meeting. I had heard this was the county board line, but as far as I was aware Shamrocks were querying it - whether they were going all out with an appeal or not I couldn't tell you.

It makes a bit of a farce of the championship though - eleven teams? If we're still going to have quarter finals, it's a big advantage to be drawn in the five team group. Also, whoever has the bye week last has a bit of a disadvantage since other teams could know what they have to do to go through. I know it will be random, but it's still not ideal.

I wonder what's the plan for 2013 - are we going to try and get back to 12, go down to 10, or stay at 11? I presume we'll wait till October next year to decide that.

So has it been confirmed that there will be no relegation from Senior in 2012. But they want to enforce it this year when no team will be coming up. Does not make much sense. Do the county board have set policy in place or not to deal with relegation. Will this be the same for senior hurling?
Killavilla were relegated from Intermediate hurling, Rynaghs won the Junior, so what is the CB's call on this?

Basically they should not be changing how they deal with it every year. Put a rule in place and stick to it.