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Offaly Hero wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 7:57 pm The over and back between Lone Shark and Anonymous1 is what makes this (supposedly) GAA forum so good.
Very interesting points made on both sides and all made respectfuly. Thanks to both.

Haha it should always be this way. People will have disagreements but it should be amicable and ideally both come away with a better understanding of the other person’s point of view, even if they don’t agree.

I know that KK have got three in a row, but the last 2 finals have been really good for Offaly hurling in my opinion. Both Ballinamere and Shinrone could have done it, but KK are a brilliant side and they have proven they can win through a number of ways. Many were probably hoping for a Shinrone win, but hopefully KK can go on a run in Leinster, albeit they have a very tough path.

Is the learning from this for Shinrone to start one of the more physical forwards they brought on and bring the other on at the same point as yesterday? Just might add a variety to their forward line so that even if the ball in isn’t brilliant, it might stick. Look at KK’s and there’s 3 complete different hurlers. But that’s only from outside looking in, who am I to question.

Some achievement for their management to start fresh and lead them to a county final, would love to see them come back stronger next year and hopefully get over the line.

A seventh medal yesterday for Conor Slevin, Damien Kilmartin, Conor Mahon, Peter Geraghty, James Gorman, Enda Grogan, Thomas Geraghty and Killian Leonard. A sixth for Cillian Kiely and Shane Guinan, and a fifth or Jordan Quinn.

Anonymous1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 6:49 pm The figure of dodgy box users in Ireland was estimated at 400,000 recently. No matter what way you dress it up, that level of business being lost has to affect employment in the likes of Sky.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2025/1 ... d-results/

So based on this report, Sky Ireland employs around 900 people. The same article shows that the 'Sky Subscribers' company made £96million in post-tax income, and that this was an increase on the previous year, while also stating that in the same year, Sky Subscribers reduced its workforce by around 9%. To put that in real terms, it let go of (or didn't replace) 800 people.

Based on that ethos, we can say with reasonable certainty that an increase in revenue for the Sky Ireland division would not necessarily lead to an increase in employment. Or to put it another way, Sky Ireland will spend as little on wages as they can to get the job done. I accept that Sky are losing some money to people who have dodgy boxes instead, but I'm not convinced that Sky would employ more people just because they became more profitable. Sure, there would be a short term need for increased technicians for the initial installations, but after that, more recurring subscriptions wouldn't lead to more employment in my opinion.

Anonymous1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 6:49 pm
You’ve hit the nail on the head that a lot of dodgy box users use one to watch the Premier League because they can’t afford all the different subscriptions just like a lot of dodgy boxers users use one to watch GAA games because they can’t afford GAA+, Clubber nor to actually attend the games in person.

Just as you believe it’s morally acceptable to screw over the billionaire owners of media organisations, a lot of people think it’s morally acceptable to screw over the GAA who they believe have priced the average punter out of attending weekly. “Grab all association” etc etc, whether you or I agree with that doesn’t matter, if you think it’s justified to screw certain organisations then others are more than entitled to believe they’re justified in screwing other organisations.

Different people draw their own ethical lines in different places, and some people's only ethical line is to look after number one at all costs. Humanity will always be that way. The reason I made the initial post that I did is because I would like to advocate for a world where people think for themselves and try to assess right from wrong that way. A dangerous policy perhaps, in a world where there are consequences for actions that are illegal but not immoral, and scarily few consequences for actions that are immoral but not illegal.

Society is headed down a very dark road if as individuals, we completely outsource our sense of right and wrong to those who write our laws. We took long enough to break from the shackles of those who imposed religious laws on us.

Anonymous1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 6:49 pm I agree Clubber provides a good service and would be sorry to see its demise, although I’m sure something would take its place as 24/7tv were showing a lot of Offaly club games before Clubber was established. Conversely, I wouldn’t shed any tears if Sky went out of business.

But I’m grounded in reality and what’s good for the good is good for the gander. If you’re happy to see people using dodgy boxes to screw Sky, an unfortunate negative consequence of that is going to be the likes of Clubber also getting screwed so in that regard this is a “black or white issue”. Either the dodgy boxes stay or they go. And as you say yourself, Clubber are much more vulnerable than Sky here.

I completely accept that Clubber are in a difficult fight here, and what for Sky is a fight for extra money is in Clubber's case, a fight for survival.

There is no law that will allow Clubber to move off dodgy boxes, but for Sky to remain on them - however the option is open to every individual to say to themselves that I could get a dodgy box to avoid lining the pockets of the Murdoch family, but I could also make the conscious decision that Clubber are worth paying for, so I will pay for what I get from them.

Anonymous1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 6:49 pm One final point I will make though is that MediaHuis, a Belgian media conglomerate has purchased a significant stake in Clubber. MediaHuis is a billion euro company which owns titles such as the Irish Independent. Many people of your political persuasion would view that newspaper as having a clear editorial slant against your particular worldview and indeed it has endorsed parties in the past.

So I would ask how you can marry working for a company such as that .....

You're not wrong, and yes, to a considerable extent, this is where my argument falls down. I also supply written reports (though not many) to the Irish Independent, and indeed to certain local newspaper titles that are in the Mediahaus Group, most commonly the Sligo Champion and the Kerryman. Like Clubber, they aren't absolutely make or break to my life, but they are part of the pot.

But the thing is, you can't stop there. There are plenty of other outlets that I work for, where my immediate contacts are good, decent people and a pleasure to deal with, but if you trace the ownership of the company back far enough, you start to run into companies and individuals where I have to hold my nose.

I'll admit too that I downloaded the No Thanks app to try and avoid companies that do business in the occupied territories of Palestine, but it's incredibly arduous to follow it religiously so while I've a fair few companies that I will not buy from based on my knowledge of what they do in that part of the world, there are plenty of others probably slipping through the cracks as I fly around trying to get my shopping done in time to pick the wee man up from school. There are plenty more that I'm doing business with, and I don't even realise that I'm probably funding bad people in one way or another. Until 2025, I heard very little about Larry Ellison, and would have known nothing about his companies.

I suppose that's a roundabout way of saying that it's very demanding not putting a foot wrong, even with the best of intentions.

Once again, I guess it's back to the thing of life not being black and white. I'm not perfect, I'm doing my best, and my rationale when it comes to companies that give me work is that I have to write for a lot of companies to earn a pretty average income, and the way it works as a freelance reporter is that you could cut out one or two media outlets but you'd still have to go to the same amount of games, it's very rare that I attend a match for professional reasons for just one outlet.

I'm not complaining. I enjoy my work, I spend a lot of time outdoors, it's family friendly in a lot of ways, and if you bought a house in 2013, you don't have expensive tastes and you're not worried about driving round in a 2011 Avensis with 400,000km on the clock, life west of the Shannon can be affordable. I appreciate the life and the career I have, and am very grateful for it. If I was to cut out all the media outlets where the ownership was problematic however, then that arithmetic would change, leading to negative consequences for my family and I. And at the risk of being (fairly) marked down as ethically impure, I've made peace with the life I've made.


And once again, my apologies to those on here who just want to talk about the hurling final.

the county senior final done well to get a few mentions in tbe last few pages, its all "Sky and Clubber" chat...whatever about Clubber, its a bit like a politician or Minister saying such and such was saved foe the tax payer with such and such a measure...fair enough, but it wont be enough for you or I to work a minute less next week, we will never see or feel that impact..now here's me as bad..a good enough county final, Shinrone left too much to do and emptied the tank twice in come back, Sampson miss was terrible unlucky at a key time, if that went in, 3 goals would be decisive to score by that stage, the over carrying or barging call it as you will was a ferocious poor decision, after Shinrone brought the ball from fires of hell out if defence..a shocking harsh and wrong call i think..i suppose real difference was KK had Screeney (done serious work off the ball too)and Mitchell..when Shinrones tank eventually enptied the class of those two saw out the game...Killian Sampson had a mighty game for Shinrone..good luck to KK now, Shinrone died with their boots on..

Doon Exile wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 12:14 pm

Runner_bean wrote: ↑Sun Oct 19, 2025 7:05 pm

Faithfully wrote: ↑Sun Oct 19, 2025 5:42 pm

They didn't bring him on in his usual midfield position from what I gather, which would speak to the wrist injury.

I think you're verging in to disparaging remarks about a young player now, and it's a bit inappropriate. The Gaels won the title, that should be the focus on the back of the game.

And im sure thats all the players in brosna gaels were focused on no matter who they had at their disposal

Of course Brosna Gaels were focused on their own job, but it’s still very disappointing that their county player won’t play with them.

Especially for the coaches who brought him through the underage years.

Can't blame Shirley if he isn't ecstatic about playing for Brosna Gaels in the Junior A championship while being injured. He was one of Offalys best players last year at senior inter county level.
It's a bit ridiculous that his club hurling consists of playing in Offalys 4th tier against the likes of KKs third string team and a bunch of other second teams when he would be any club in the county's senior teams best player or at least close to it.
Honestly its remarkable he's made it to the kevel he has while playing all his underage with Brosna Gaels. They don't field underage teams a lot of the time and when they do they're rarely competitive with the other clubs.

Anyone watching Clubber matches on a dodgy box knows that Clubber won’t be a viable business if everyone does the same thing. They’ve decided they can’t justify the €150 sub whether that’s down to valid personal budget issues or inherent meanness is up to them. If I own Clubber I think these people are irrelevant because they’re never going to subscribe. The €150 is more important to them than being able to see the matches.

If someone enjoys watching club matches and would miss the service and they’re not subscribed and can afford it , they need to give their head a shake.

Wingbackassassin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 10:06 am

Doon Exile wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 12:14 pm

Runner_bean wrote: ↑Sun Oct 19, 2025 7:05 pm


And im sure thats all the players in brosna gaels were focused on no matter who they had at their disposal

Of course Brosna Gaels were focused on their own job, but it’s still very disappointing that their county player won’t play with them.

Especially for the coaches who brought him through the underage years.

Can't blame Shirley if he isn't ecstatic about playing for Brosna Gaels in the Junior A championship while being injured. He was one of Offalys best players last year at senior inter county level.
It's a bit ridiculous that his club hurling consists of playing in Offalys 4th tier against the likes of KKs third string team and a bunch of other second teams when he would be any club in the county's senior teams best player or at least close to it.
Honestly its remarkable he's made it to the kevel he has while playing all his underage with Brosna Gaels. They don't field underage teams a lot of the time and when they do they're rarely competitive with the other clubs.

Brosna gaels play with Clara at underage when numbers don't allow for them to go it alone. Also if Shirley rowed in properly with the club they be a mid tier intermediate team at least. Need to grow hurling, not hold it back. Imagine if there was no brosna gaels. Would Shirley be hurling at all?

I know nothing about the Brosna Gaels/Donal Shirley situation but, speaking generally, its an unusual situation and I would have a lot of sympathy for any player in that scenario.

Junior A in Offaly is the 4th tier and the standard is poor. Now its one thing if it's Ballyskenagh/Killavilla in Junior A and thats your club and hurling is the number one sport in the club and that's the number one team and that team and that championship is taken very seriously.
Its another thing entirely for a, for example, Brosna Gaels type situation which is an amalgmation team made up of clubs who all prioritise football. How often do Brosna Gaels train due to football commitments, how many are at training when it does happen? What will it be like for the next 10-15 years (the length of a players career)?
Through nobody's fault, in such a scenario, it's not hard to imagine a situation where perhaps the goals of the team and player are not 100% aligned. Again I emphasise, I'm speaking entirely in the general sense and I know nothing about the specifics of this situation.

It's a nuanced issue.

At underage level, Shirley was part of a group that was nurtured and hothoused the whole way up through the ranks in Offaly because everyone involved knew they were special. Now, he spends six or seven months of the year hurling with Offaly, and a good chunk of the rest with DCU, so he's getting high level hurling there. Playing with Brosna Gaels hasn't held him back so far, but that's not to say that it never will.

There's no getting away from it, when he graduates and he's just doing club and county, that's the time when he'll be forced into a decision. Even if we assume that Brosna Gaels hold onto intermediate status between now and then - and that's not guaranteed at all - third tier hurling in Offaly is not a level where a young county player will continue to develop, it's not the same as someone playing Premier Intermediate in Cork or Intermediate in Galway.

Add in that by my count (and I could be wrong, it's only a guesstimate), 10 of the 18 players that saw action in the Junior Final for Brosna Gaels are 30 or older, and that by definition, as it's not a proper club but a combination team, it will never have the same resources and will never have the same drive behind it as a club side will, and it's going to be a hard sell for them to keep a player of Shirley's calibre.

Then there's the dual aspect. Shirley plays football with Tubber and I assume he'll continue to do so, but that's all the more season why he'll need his club hurling preparation to be of a high level, since he'll be operating in a week on/week off situation.

Or maybe he won't keep playing both sports, and will instead want to focus fully on his hurling - in which case, is there even Brosna Gaels training on a football week, and is it anything more than a simple puckaround with 8 or 10 hardy souls? To me, the obvious comparator in recent years is Cathal Donoghue, who moved away from Kilcormac-Killoughey where football wouldn't have been taken as seriously as he would have liked - albeit there were geography considerations there too.

There is also a long track record of players at clubs that are some way off the pace making a switch in the interests of their county career. The ones that stuck with small clubs tended to be part of a group where there were a few very talented players, so they were punching above their weight while that player was there (Vinny Claffey with Doon is the best example).

I don't know Donal at all, but suggestions implying that he should in some way "take one for the team" and stick with Brosna Gaels regardless are unfair, imho.

Nowlan Park @1.30 pm Sunday 9th November. KK v Kilkenny Champions.

I’ll see your Donal Shirley and raise you a Chris McDonald and Tom Spain.

I think its only fair he moves to a club that struggles numbers wise so that rules out kk

Brosna Gaels train Monday and Thursdays plus whatever games they play after that.

Bernard Allen was probably their best forward this year. He missed a number of trainings coming up to the semi final and was duly dropped. Quite harshly in my opinion but message is clear to all that training is required by all.

They take their hurling very serious.

Didn’t Brosna Gaels not so long ago come all the way from junior B to senior ranks, I wouldn’t be knocking the junior grade at all. It’s a platform for some clubs, if you have some success at underage level you can build a team from junior upwards. It’s not as if we have been setting the world alight at senior county level for the last 25 years with the majority of the team coming from senior clubs in the county, we were playing Christy Ring a few years ago. If he’s that good he should be well able to elevate the team to at least senior B, or move to another club where success is never a guarantee either