www.uibhfhaili.com

redser wrote:Rhode
N McNamee
A McNamee
N Darby
J kIlmurray
P Sullivan
P Kellaghan

Tullamore
S Dooley


Clara
O' Hara
T Deehan
S Brady

Shamrocks
P Kelly
N Coughlan
L Mooney
PJ Ward

Gracefield
N Smith
K Slattery

Ballycumber
N Grennan
R Guinan

Ferbane
A Keenaghan

Shannonbridge
J Kelly

Edenderry
J Hurst
B Quinlan

Erin Rovers
R Fox
D Kelly

Tubber
C McManus
N Browne


St Rynaghs
G Rafferty

St Brigids
S Casey
K Casey
D Egan

Doon
J Coughlan

Walsh Island
A Mulhall
W Mulhall

From what ive seen in the champ i think the names listed above would be the best squad available. I know there will be question marks over the inclusion of the likes of Pascal but in my opinion he has something to offer when used correctly. That is when hes put in the full forward line and told to stay there. He can take brilliant scores but hasnt the work rate for playing as thord midfielder or whatever other stupid role he has been given in recent years.

Brian Darby had a decent county final but ive seen enough of him to know hes a decent club player but nowhere near county standard. Shane Sullivan is another who isnt county standard.

I know i only included 1 Tullamore player but been fair who else could be included. Cathal Daly has retired from intercounty and the rest work well as a unit for Tullamore but are by no means wonderful players. Keane and McConway are not county standard defenders. Their image men who need to thrim the ego's.

Im sure theres a few otther players that could be added to the mix but the main thing is that Offaly need players who want to win and win wearing the green white and Gold.

David Corbett and Kieran Flannery both from Shannonbridge should also be added to that list..

Goes to show when you have 9 intermediate club players we dont have the tallent we were not good enough this year and we wil not be good enough next year the county is in a poor state and not going to change anytime soon players are too small not psycial enough and players are of a poor standard need to start from scratch at underage depressed suporter

Hocker,

The two lads you named deserve some recognition as they had decent championships. Of the two Corbett probably would be worth a call up but Flannery hasnt the defensive qualities. Hes good going forward but doesnt mark anybody, this has left Shannonbridge wide open at times, at county level he'd get badly exposed. Maybe he should be converted into a half forward.


Corbett to be fair is well able to get scores every game.

rocket57 wrote:Goes to show when you have 9 intermediate club players we dont have the tallent we were not good enough this year and we wil not be good enough next year the county is in a poor state and not going to change anytime soon players are too small not psycial enough and players are of a poor standard need to start from scratch at underage depressed suporter

Until we put in place divisional teams, this will always be the way. I'm a long standing fan of that system, but in the meantime it is unrealistic to expect that all thirty players on the panel will be from senior clubs.

Let's look at it another way - there are over thirty different clubs that play football in Offaly. Those would be split into

(1) Perennial senior clubs - Rhode, Tullamore, Clara etc
(2) Poor senior/good intermediate clubs - Croghan, WI, Edenderry, Rynaghs
(3) Poor Inter/Good junior clubs - Durrow, Bracknagh, Ballyfore...
(4) Weak junior clubs - Killeigh, Clonmore, Ballycommon etc.

Now realistically, on a panel of thirty players you're never going to get all your players from the top group. You'll get maybe 15-20 out of your thirty players from the best eight clubs out there, but it's not realistic to expect Tullamore or Gracefield's fifth best player to be better than the best footballer in Croghan or Cloghan. Likewise, just because a club is going through a bad spell doesn't mean that you don't pick their best player if he's worth his place. You won't see Dublin dropping Bryan Cullen or Meath dropping Graham Geraghty just because they both play Junior football. (Cullen might be intermediate, but if he is that's in a county where 32 clubs are senior).

However I have no problem whatsoever with picking players that are intermediate or even junior if necessary. I do very much have a problem with our panel being filled with "squatters" so to speak. What I mean by this is best illustrated by last year - when we had a nightmare against Westmeath and we wanted to change things up, Pat Roe suddenly realised that he needed to look outside the panel to get viable alternatives, to players that hadn't been doing the training all year. He clearly believed that the guys from 16-30 on his existing panel weren't up to the job. My question is this - if he believed that, why on earth were they on the panel in the first place? The point of being on an intercounty panel is that the manager reckons that you're a guy he considers worth playing at intercounty level. Now obvious guys can play really well and force their way into the reckoning in the club championship and that's as it should be, but that should be exceptional, not commonplace. Midseason overhauls of your group are not a good thing - particularly when a huge emphasis will have to be put on togetherness and collectively digging Offaly out of a slump, as needs to be the case in 2009.

The point about physical conditioning is very well made - however the lack of a long term view is what's killing us here. In 2009, it's safe to assume that Offaly will pay good money to a physical trainer. By Summer 2010, at least ten of the lads that will have been getting the benefit of intercounty standard training and instruction will be off the panel due to lack of form or whatever, and we'll be back bemoaning the lack of strength in our players again.

If we're going to pay a physical trainer, we should go the whole hog and take someone on full time. By the time you pay fixed rate and mileage to a guy showing up to training three times a week, it would be just as cheap to tender it out, pay €50k salary to one individual (€50k each to two if necessary) and let them look after the footballers, hurlers and be available by appointment to every club player in the county. That way if David Corbett or Kieran Flannnery are interested in playing intercounty football, they can go to this guy, get good instruction about that they need to be doing/lifting/eating, what their BMI should be, body fat index should be and all that stuff, and even if they're not on Richie Connor's panel of thirty, that way if they do get called upon in 2010 or 2011, we're not taking on a guy with plenty of talent but not nearly enough physical strength.

By next year there will be around 50 young footballers all across the county who will have played in a Leinster minor final for Offaly. We cannot bring them all into Richie Connor's training squad, but we can try to give them every chance to keep their improvement going so that if they do hit a real vein of form in 2010, they won't be way off the pace if needed.

Lone Shark wrote:
Until we put in place divisional teams, this will always be the way. I'm a long standing fan of that system, but in the meantime it is unrealistic to expect that all thirty players on the panel will be from senior clubs.

Let's look at it another way - there are over thirty different clubs that play football in Offaly. Those would be split into

(1) Perennial senior clubs - Rhode, Tullamore, Clara etc
(2) Poor senior/good intermediate clubs - Croghan, WI, Edenderry, Rynaghs
(3) Poor Inter/Good junior clubs - Durrow, Bracknagh, Ballyfore...
(4) Weak junior clubs - Killeigh, Clonmore, Ballycommon etc.

Now realistically, on a panel of thirty players you're never going to get all your players from the top group. You'll get maybe 15-20 out of your thirty players from the best eight clubs out there, but it's not realistic to expect Tullamore or Gracefield's fifth best player to be better than the best footballer in Croghan or Cloghan. Likewise, just because a club is going through a bad spell doesn't mean that you don't pick their best player if he's worth his place. You won't see Dublin dropping Bryan Cullen or Meath dropping Graham Geraghty just because they both play Junior football. (Cullen might be intermediate, but if he is that's in a county where 32 clubs are senior).

However I have no problem whatsoever with picking players that are intermediate or even junior if necessary. I do very much have a problem with our panel being filled with "squatters" so to speak. What I mean by this is best illustrated by last year - when we had a nightmare against Westmeath and we wanted to change things up, Pat Roe suddenly realised that he needed to look outside the panel to get viable alternatives, to players that hadn't been doing the training all year. He clearly believed that the guys from 16-30 on his existing panel weren't up to the job. My question is this - if he believed that, why on earth were they on the panel in the first place? The point of being on an intercounty panel is that the manager reckons that you're a guy he considers worth playing at intercounty level. Now obvious guys can play really well and force their way into the reckoning in the club championship and that's as it should be, but that should be exceptional, not commonplace. Midseason overhauls of your group are not a good thing - particularly when a huge emphasis will have to be put on togetherness and collectively digging Offaly out of a slump, as needs to be the case in 2009.

The point about physical conditioning is very well made - however the lack of a long term view is what's killing us here. In 2009, it's safe to assume that Offaly will pay good money to a physical trainer. By Summer 2010, at least ten of the lads that will have been getting the benefit of intercounty standard training and instruction will be off the panel due to lack of form or whatever, and we'll be back bemoaning the lack of strength in our players again.

If we're going to pay a physical trainer, we should go the whole hog and take someone on full time. By the time you pay fixed rate and mileage to a guy showing up to training three times a week, it would be just as cheap to tender it out, pay €50k salary to one individual (€50k each to two if necessary) and let them look after the footballers, hurlers and be available by appointment to every club player in the county. That way if David Corbett or Kieran Flannnery are interested in playing intercounty football, they can go to this guy, get good instruction about that they need to be doing/lifting/eating, what their BMI should be, body fat index should be and all that stuff, and even if they're not on Richie Connor's panel of thirty, that way if they do get called upon in 2010 or 2011, we're not taking on a guy with plenty of talent but not nearly enough physical strength.

By next year there will be around 50 young footballers all across the county who will have played in a Leinster minor final for Offaly. We cannot bring them all into Richie Connor's training squad, but we can try to give them every chance to keep their improvement going so that if they do hit a real vein of form in 2010, they won't be way off the pace if needed.

Excellent post.

So with all the games over for the forseeable future, threads such as this will lend a hand to filling the void and various players will be discussed who are 'potentialy' worth a shot on Senior panel. The thirty odd players that have been posted by a prveious poster are probably close enough to the final outcome in 09. Sadly some of the '50' or so minors that have played in Leinster minor finals in the last three or four years have already slipped away for one reason or another e.g. Ross Brady and Diarmuid Horan. Incidently I heard Brady was purposely taken out of it the other night in league semi final against St rynaghs and spent the night in hospital. Seemingly there were strong verbals between the culprit (Ger Rafferty) and Scott Brady.

Just looking at the names already mentioned I would have serious doubts about many having seen them in action throughout 08.
N McNamee
A McNamee (Savage in the county final but will struggle at inter county level. Verdict= time to hang up the boots at this level)
N Darby (took scores well all year, but realistically will never make it because of size)
J kIlmurray (Past his best and always struggled with speed over ten yards which you need at the top)
P Sullivan (if he could get his head right he would make a useful addition as he has more to offer than his brother)
P Kellaghan (has retired from intercounty football)
S Dooley (disappointing final and will not feature because of hurling involvement)
J O'Hara (will get another look, but says alot about his character that he walked away last year)
T Deehan (needs to seriously take a look at what he wants to do)
S Brady (same as alan mcnamee- time is up)
P Kelly (should take a bow and head for the sunset- not before time )
N Coughlan (should make a comeback to the panel but not as a forward)
L Mooney (another chance?same result)
PJ Ward (decent forward, with serious head problems which wont be sorted out by any of the present team management because they lack people skills)
N Smith( will be on team sheet from day one)
K Slattery (as above)
N Grennan (another player who like James Keane and paul McConway are living on a few good games two or three years ago- time to stand up)
R Guinan (never rated him until 08- but that aside his performances for ballycumber and the Gardai merit inclusion)
A Keenaghan (will feature as will one or two more of his club mates)
J Kelly (attitude is a recurrent theme with some of these footballers and this man fits that category.has talent but nor a midfielder)
J Hurst (Still producing the performances, but doesnt wish to be included)
B Quinlan (Panelist)
R Fox( no where near good enough for this standard)
D Kelly (as above)
C McManus (head for the sunset while you can Mc and thanks)
N Browne (will get a look ove the winter months but not good enough. would opt for his clubmate Higgins here)
G Rafferty (perhaps the most non skillful player ever to playy for offaly on a consistent basis)
S Casey (should be worth a shot again)
K Casey (Jason Kelly, Thomas Deehan, Ken Casey....if the attitude is right....)
D Egan (good worker and will lead croghan to glory this year.Panelist)
J Coughlan (Merits inclusion few out there with the same skill)
A Mulhall (has been a panelist up and down- will never seriously contend for a place)
W Mulhall (has bright future,should be a big year)
I think we can also add the two Conners from D'Welsh Island

Those are my thoughts, which I know will be ripped to shreads. Leaves us with a good 7 a side team for 2009

Coolestown1562 wrote: Incidently I heard Brady was purposely taken out of it the other night in league semi final against St rynaghs and spent the night in hospital. Seemingly there were strong verbals between the culprit (Ger Rafferty) and Scott Brady.

What league semi-final is this? As far as I know Ferbane are in the final and are waiting the winners of Rhode and St. Brigid's??

Perhaps division 2?

What a year for Ferbane- League final and avoiding relegation- are ye training for it? Rhode will use it as good prep for the leinster club

P Kellaghan has retired from intercounty football (see earlier post)

He has declined an invite and stated that regardless of who got the job he was finished at this level. Personally, his point from the 21 yard line against Laois in O'connor park some years back was the highlight.


Maybe if Eamon Horan views this site he may slot it in on 6 o'clock news some evening

It’s funny how when you’re a child, nothing bothers you more than perceived unfairness. Nobody getting a fun size kitkat after dinner, that was fine. You not getting one when your younger sister did, that was another matter entirely.

Life’s inherent unfairness forces us to grow out of this to a certain degree, but it never leaves us completely. Notice in football how people never ask for referees to be right, merely that they be consistent.

I think it’s something we have to bear in mind as supporters as well. A lot is asked of intercounty players these days (it’s football for the purposes of this thread, but the same applies to the hurlers) and we don’t help by arbitrarily changing the goalposts. We complain if good players choose not to play, but we also complain if those who are selected don’t give utter and total commitment to the cause. We ask for passion and drive from our players, but then give out if that passion and drive occasionally overspills, or if we sometimes end up with teams or players who lack a cool head in a crisis. Above all, we pick players and then we judge them by rose-tinted views of how the alternative guy would do in their stead. (To pick the obvious example, McManus is a player who sometimes gets criticised for headless play, but I wouldn’t like to be the player who has to take over from him!)

Without overdoing the importance of this board – I like to think of it as nothing more than a microcosm of what’s going on in the pubs all across Offaly, albeit with more of a geographical spread in the one place – we should be aware not to be creating standards that the players and Richie Connor cannot hope to obtain.

To take the obvious example – we all want passion and commitment from our players – but picking guys on hypothetical panels who clearly aren’t interested is not fair to those who will have to fill their boots. We all know Cathal Daly is a wonderful defender, but he has his own reasons for deciding that he’s not in a place to commit to the rigours that intercounty football demands. Cathal is an experienced player who knows this well, so we shouldn’t question him, we should just say thanks for his time and move on. Ditto Shane Dooley, who doesn’t want to play because he wants to commit to the county hurlers, and Rory Guinan, who has gone on record as saying that he wouldn’t be able to be part of the county footballers for as long as he’s stationed in Sligo.

Now I’d be happy to have all three of these guys on my thirty man panel, but the truth is that they aren’t interested, so that should be the end of it. It’s not fair to whoever does play at 6, 11 and 13 next year that they must be compared to guys who weren’t in a position to do what it takes.

Also, I think we put too much store by the guys who don’t play. The clock can’t be rolled back – intercounty GAA is basically a full time hobby now, so it’s only natural that several players can’t take part. Four or five guys that would be panel standard electing to step back is not a crisis to me – it’s a sign that we’re going reasonably well. If that wasn’t happening, I’d be questioning whether or not the demands being made were sufficient.

It’s not realistic to compare with Kilkenny or Kerry – these are counties where the hardest part of winning an All Ireland is getting onto the team. The rewards are much greater, so it’s natural that more players would make the sacrifices.

This post isn’t meant as a rebuttal to anyone in particular, merely my own thoughts on how we’d maybe do well as a county to be fair to the players – if we’re going to expect pure commitment, serious restraint on social activity and absolute fitness, we’re going to have players of greater talent and players who have more going on in their lives who will not be able to meet those criteria. Those lads should be thanked and then let go on with their lives – not eulogised and certainly not harassed to rejoin, not in January and much less in May. To those who sign up, you have our total support. Can’t wait to be there with ye.

TheManFromFerbane wrote:[What league semi-final is this? As far as I know Ferbane are in the final and are waiting the winners of Rhode and St. Brigid's??

It was the Division 2 Semi. Clara are playing Doon in the Division 2 final next sunday in Ferbane.

Hmmm, not like Raff to be going around taking lads out of it. Let me guess - the elbow??

Had a look at the intermediate final yesterday. Brigids were mile ahead of the Island. should have really won by more.

Have to say im a bit worried about the tactics and decisions of the walsh Island management. They played very negative defensive style and had a guy playing as a third midfielder who wasnt a fielder and defianately was not mobile.

I fear this could be the tactics our county side adopt next season but maybe its just that the Island were so limited that these tactics were the only way for them. Time will tell i guess.

I'd be slow to blame Connor for Walsh Island's tactics yesterday. They have some very good players, but they're carrying a lot of weaker lads as well - it stands to reason that the game plan would be relatively straightforward and geared towards maximising their strong points.

They didn't have game-changers on the bench either, so I think all Richie could do was get the team fit and ready. Brigids were just a good bit better than them, nothing a manager can do about that.

What yesterday also proved is that for all the plethora of lads that they have had playing county football in recent years, I'd say Brian Connor for the county under 21s and maybe for the senior panel if he plays well at that level in Spring, but none of the other lads in stripes were up to the standard. Alan Mulhall does his job well for Walsh Island, but assuming Niall Mac will be available to the county team next year and won't decide to stay in Australia for longer, Mulhall's edge of the square style won't suit.

That to me will be the real test of Richie. If four or five of that team from Sunday make the Offaly panel, then we know that we have a problem. He'll need to be able to realise that this Walsh Island team simply bears no resemblence to the one he played on.

Lone Shark wrote:I'd be slow to blame Connor for Walsh Island's tactics yesterday. They have some very good players, but they're carrying a lot of weaker lads as well - it stands to reason that the game plan would be relatively straightforward and geared towards maximising their strong points.

They didn't have game-changers on the bench either, so I think all Richie could do was get the team fit and ready. Brigids were just a good bit better than them, nothing a manager can do about that.

What yesterday also proved is that for all the plethora of lads that they have had playing county football in recent years, I'd say Brian Connor for the county under 21s and maybe for the senior panel if he plays well at that level in Spring, but none of the other lads in stripes were up to the standard. Alan Mulhall does his job well for Walsh Island, but assuming Niall Mac will be available to the county team next year and won't decide to stay in Australia for longer, Mulhall's edge of the square style won't suit.

That to me will be the real test of Richie. If four or five of that team from Sunday make the Offaly panel, then we know that we have a problem. He'll need to be able to realise that this Walsh Island team simply bears no resemblence to the one he played on.

I disagree with you here I thought his tactics were poor. He started of with a guy about 3 stone overweight operating as a sweeper on the halfback line!! If you are going to put a player doing this he has to be able to run for a start. He never tried to nullify Ken Casey he could of (A) Tried someone else on him( neither of the corner backs were doing too badly and are fast and should have been tried on Casey) and (B) surely if you are dropping back a player like he did you would play him in front of Ken Casey and not on the half backline/Midfield area. Taking off Willie Mulhall and putting him back on was a funny decision your either fit enough to play or your not!! and he seemed to be fine and didnt receive any treatment when he went off.