Offaly Underage Coaching and Development

[del]

There is no counter argument tho in my opinion . And everybody is entitled to one
Cormac Egan Jack Bryant John furlong Lee Pearson Cathal flynn etc etc played other sports till they were 14/15 and some others later and they are our best players so like a bit common sense is needed here and let kids play what they want . The gaa is that big of a pull they will all play it in the end

[jimbob17]

There is no counter argument tho in my opinion . And everybody is entitled to one
Cormac Egan Jack Bryant John furlong Lee Pearson Cathal flynn etc etc played other sports till they were 14/15 and some others later and they are our best players so like a bit common sense is needed here and let kids play what they want . The gaa is that big of a pull they will all play it in the end

You could add any amount to that list too, Dylan Hyland, Diarmuid Egan, Keith O'Neill, Jordan Hayes, Paddy Dunican, Shane Tierney, Cillian Bourke, Kyle Higgins etc etc among countless others. Added to list above, that is pretty much all of the senior football team currently who would have been locked out of playing underage and minor if what is happening now was happening 10-15 years ago. Think about that for a second!

The issue i would have is that while we were previously able to facilitate these lads through development squads before, now we seem to be forcing them to choose at U14 level. If a lad doesn't turn up for the first trial at U14 in February because he is playing an U13 soccer match with his school friends, then he is locked out for a couple of years. That is a lot of time, money and coaching that he is missing out on. I am not saying it is simple, and there is a simple answer, there isn't. I am not saying we should bend over backwards for a lad playing for a club soccer team, but if a lad is at a decent level (LOI) with Athlone Town, or Midlands rugby, then we are the losers on the higher level of talent if we can't bend somewhat at a few pinch points in the year - ie April / May and September. Why would you allow soccer and rugby and other sports have exclusive access to these higher end talents by making rules to block them out for the sake of exerting control. Do we have to force this issue so much when timetabling development squad sessions opposite some of these sports at certain times of the year, forcing them to make decisions at such a young age. Offaly is the loser currently because of this authoritarian approach. It is grossly naive and shortsighted and only turns players and parents off them ever playing for Offaly. If there was a bit of bending (with parents, and players), our teams would be much stronger and get better results. As result, it'd be a lot more enjoyable than heading off with weaker players taking hammerings from other counties which does nobody any good and is only pumping good money into a weak system that facilitates failure. If they are happy with that, keep going. If I was a sponsor pumping in money to such a flawed system, I'd be asking questions.

The concern I'd have with these talented lads is that if they have a bad experience because of the culture around Offaly GAA in relation to other sports, it could turn them off for life and we lose those players with the athletic potential to play senior for the county down the line. Just look at Louth, Dundalk and Drogheda FC as a prime example. If they locked out their soccer talent, they'd never have had the success they have had in the last number of years. Knowing what they did up there, they did everything in their power to attract the best lads into Louth GAA, made it enjoyable and look what happened. Those players chose Louth GAA as a result over other sports. We had this too in Offaly with the development squads before this new regime was brought in and we won two all Ireland U20's and 5 Leinster titles in hurling and football at minor and U20 in 5 years.

As I see it, we have absolutely lost the plot at development squad level. These are only kids at 14 and 15, but in a couple of years they are minor and U20 and heading in to senior level, and if they are treated fairly and properly, with a bit of balance and perspective, then we will be able to hold on to them. However, there is a level of heavy handed right wing kamikaze thinking that has taken hold of Offaly in recent times and the plane is headed for a very heavy crash landing.

Yea, we have had some luck in that a few come back and play minor football last year and win Leinster but that won't happen most years if the status quo remains. We are simply not doing enough to attract in the best talent to play for Offaly, and worryingly, we are actively turning them off (parents and players alike). While the individuals overseeing it probably have the best of intentions for Offaly, but without the knowledge, education or skill-set around coaching and development to be making such decisions, they have shown to date that they really don't have a clue what they should be at. I'd really fear that the years ahead at senior level will be very painful if this problem is not addressed as a matter of urgency.

[Anon444]

They are all valid points. Like I said in a previous post, I’m worried about certain things that you hear coming out of OCP. I feel there are policies that are completely counter-intuitive to developing our players. You can run an authoritarian regime in bigger counties, because there will always be a supply of kids but not in a county of Offaly’s size. I do worry that the kids will be burned out by the time they reach adult level, there are far too many games going on especially for the smaller clubs.

But, it’s all well and good posting on a forum remaining anonymous. I would encourage people to go to their clubs executives and outline all of these worries, if people are that unhappy then change will happen.

[Tar Man]

There is no counter argument tho in my opinion . And everybody is entitled to one
Cormac Egan Jack Bryant John furlong Lee Pearson Cathal flynn etc etc played other sports till they were 14/15 and some others later and they are our best players so like a bit common sense is needed here and let kids play what they want . The gaa is that big of a pull they will all play it in the end

You're first line says it all.

You're all losing sight on what a Development Squad should be - it's to develop talent in the County. It's not a status thing to select the best 30-40 kids within the county. If you have a Development Squad session and you don't have a high participation due to other sports then is really worth putting it on - I've never seen a session but I'd imagine that there is a significant cost to putting a session on with regards to the support staff that are involved. Them lads mentioned above wouldn't have needed to be part of a Development Squad - they had what was needed already and the main thing was they continued playing for their clubs whilst playing other sports until they decided to commit fully to GAA. If you cant give it a significant commitment then why sign up in the first place and take a place for some other lad. The squads are reviewed every year from what I hear so you can join later. And yes it is good for lads to play other sports particularly basketball which develops similar skills to football. Like i said earlier if it was only Development Squad Players who could make you're Minor Team then there would be an issue, but that's not the case.

[private joker]

The squads used to be ran correctly with large number brought in. That has now changed, groups are smaller and it quite difficult to bring in lads as mentors have no real say. You can request players and without any feedback be told no.

[jimbob17]

There is no counter argument tho in my opinion . And everybody is entitled to one
Cormac Egan Jack Bryant John furlong Lee Pearson Cathal flynn etc etc played other sports till they were 14/15 and some others later and they are our best players so like a bit common sense is needed here and let kids play what they want . The gaa is that big of a pull they will all play it in the end

You're first line says it all.

You're all losing sight on what a Development Squad should be - it's to develop talent in the County. It's not a status thing to select the best 30-40 kids within the county. If you have a Development Squad session and you don't have a high participation due to other sports then is really worth putting it on - I've never seen a session but I'd imagine that there is a significant cost to putting a session on with regards to the support staff that are involved. Them lads mentioned above wouldn't have needed to be part of a Development Squad - they had what was needed already and the main thing was they continued playing for their clubs whilst playing other sports until they decided to commit fully to GAA. If you cant give it a significant commitment then why sign up in the first place and take a place for some other lad. The squads are reviewed every year from what I hear so you can join later. And yes it is good for lads to play other sports particularly basketball which develops similar skills to football. Like i said earlier if it was only Development Squad Players who could make you're Minor Team then there would be an issue, but that's not the case.

That is absolutely baffling PJ that mentors and coaches have no say on who are on their panels.

There is an element of merit in what you say TM in ideal world if what you suggest is actually happening. However, not sure there'd be much value in pumping big money into S&C, nutrition, coaching resources for supporting loads of players who would not be making a county minor U17 panel.

Not so sure about that freedom to jump back in at minor level if not had part in development squads, and this brings us back to this authoritarian approach with little coach input. I am aware of one person offered minor job in very recent years who was told that the squad list would be given to them and that they would not have any autonomy to trial players and pick their best players. I also wonder if the current minor manager had to deal with this type of interference from said 'development committee' regarding who he could / should or could not select like the previous manager had.

[Lone Shark]

Not so sure about that freedom to jump back in at minor level if not had part in development squads, and this brings us back to this authoritarian approach with little coach input. I am aware of one person offered minor job in very recent years who was told that the squad list would be given to them and that they would not have any autonomy to trial players and pick their best players. I also wonder if the current minor manager had to deal with this type of interference from said 'development committee' regarding who he could / should or could not select like the previous manager had.

At some point over the Winter, I want to delve into all this properly and talk to a lot of people involved, to do a proper feature on it, because it's badly needed. Jimbob, if you were able to message me with who you're referring to here so I can pick up the phone to them and get it on the record as part of that whole thing, that would be fierce helpful - because I've also been told from official sources that the minor team is completely independent of the Development Squad pathway, and that county minor managers and selectors have a free hand to choose who they like. If that's wrong, it would be useful to have something concrete to challenge them with.

Just very briefly, to pick up on a couple of other points...

(1) The official line is that players are only eligible for Development Squad selection if they are (a) committed to attending all bar one or two sessions for that squad, and (b) making themselves available to their club. So a teenager who has other commitments with soccer/rugby/whatever, it's not just about being there for the majority of the Offaly sessions, it's that the club has to sign off that you're available to them as well. There may be some who are unable to clear that bar.

(2) I think some (but not all) posters on here are forgetting that if Star Player A is not part of a development squad for whatever reason, it's not like the Development Squad just operates with one less player. Instead Player B is called in, and they are the ones who benefit from all the support, knowledge and coaching that comes with it. And for obvious reasons, if Player B is just a one sport player, they aren't getting that from anywhere else - the guy who is on the radar of Leinster or Connaht Rugby, or playing Soccer with Athlone Town, doesn't need to invest the same amount of time into learning about nutrition, S&C, flexibility etc., because they're getting that elsewhere. From Offaly's point of view, the idea is to raise the overall standard, not just to hothouse one group from a young age.

(3) My concern about the rumoured role-swap that is happening at the end of the year is that everyone is talking about this as if it is inevitable, whereas if the clubs (which are made up of members, like I assume most people here are) felt that it was a bad move, they should be working to oppose it, and to demand/provide an alternative.

I'm not going to say if it would be a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm always wary of criticising people in any role when they're the only ones that put their hands up to take it on.

(4) The staff turnover aspect, and the reduction in numbers (hopefully that's just temporary until more people are recruited) is a massive concern. Again, when it's a small cohort of people, it's not necessarily statistically significant and could just be coincidental, but it definitely warrants further investigation.

[Henry 12]

Any idea of coaching teams for respective age groups for both hurling and football..Just thought we might have heard something by now.

[private joker]

Minor hurling is decided. Same mgt as last two years.

[private joker]

Shane hand u20 manager.

[Henry 12]

Good appointment

[Conrad]

I notice that Banagher College is competing this year in the third tier of colleges' hurling, Colleges C. This should serve as another warning sign for the area that underage development has declined and a renewed focus needs to be directed towards the primary schools & grassroots feeding into the college.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Demographics a big factor. I know it's a factor everywhere, but declining family sizes really hampering a school drawing from a small number of clubs. They were in C last year too - a year after winning Leinster B - and didn't come anywhere.

Meelick-Eyrecourt joined with Killimor at underage, Kiltormer joined with Mullagh, Lusmagh with Kinnitty, and I think Lorrha-Dorrha are joined with someone to the south of them for underage too. Even Banagher town doesn't have the numbers, and a typical Rynagh's underage team will have a majority from outside the town.

I notice that Banagher College is competing this year in the third tier of colleges' hurling, Colleges C. This should serve as another warning sign for the area that underage development has declined and a renewed focus needs to be directed towards the primary schools & grassroots feeding into the college.