Next Offaly football manager.....

[TheManFromFerbane]

To paraphrase Eamon Dunphy from the other night. Okay, hyperbole alert, but does the West Offaly/ Offaly situation mirror the Catalan/ Spanish one? ( and I don't mean terrorism, physical violence etc )

What I'm trying to get at is does a Rhode/Edenderry/Gracefield/Walsh Island player aspire to be a County player but a Westie not as much? Forgive me for repeating careless whispers...

When Matt Connor was a selector in the county set-up, rumour had it, and I say RUMOUR, that he believed there was no point looking for players past Clara. That was nice to hear.

[Bord na Mona man]

When Matt Connor was a selector in the county set-up, rumour had it, and I say RUMOUR, that he believed there was no point looking for players past Clara. That was nice to hear.

He was almost right.
He should have added before Clara to that too!

[Lone Shark]

To paraphrase Eamon Dunphy from the other night. Okay, hyperbole alert, but does the West Offaly/ Offaly situation mirror the Catalan/ Spanish one? ( and I don't mean terrorism, physical violence etc )

What I'm trying to get at is does a Rhode/Edenderry/Gracefield/Walsh Island player aspire to be a County player but a Westie not as much? Forgive me for repeating careless whispers...

I can't see any basis for this idea to be honest - I'd say there would be just as much enthusiasm over this side of the county. I'm intrigued also as to these "whispers" you refer to...perhaps there be aspersions being cast over there? If you've anything that we can harness in advance of Ferbane/Shannonbridge vs Rhode, then please, share....


Obviously I would like to see a selector from over our side because the tendency towards smaller clubs over our end means that it's a lot easier to miss a good player when they're in a middling team than if they play for a club where one would "expect" county players to come from and where they get more support from better players around them. However the selector named has to be well informed - I'm not trying to pick on Kieran Rigney here, but we covered all this in the "109 players" thread and a few subsequent discussions - in that instance a West Offaly selector was still unable to prevent a few potentially important players from being missed and equally a lot of lads that were never going to be still around in May were named.

Based on that, Brendan Clarke is not a bad shout - his knowledge of players in general and players from around these environs in particular would be second to none. As you say, some of his recent performances from the bench may have blackened his record book a little bit, but that may not be the issue here. Equally you will find players who have no love for him, so I'd be wary of whether he might be a little abrasive to play a supporting role. Eamonn Mahon would be a little less clued in I would guess so bearing in mind the reasons for picking such a selector, I'd be inclined to scratch him off the list. Paul Mollen is a little bit controversial with a few of his tactics and lineups, but he does think about the game and certainly would be well informed as well - you could do a lot worse.

In terms of external candidates, I had great time for Frank O'Doherty myself but he's not making many friends in Clare and I think there's a lot more talent in that county than many people realise. Myself, I've great time for third level coaches since they are well used to dealing with busy and talented intercounty standard players - somebody like Anthony Brennan (formerly of Sligo IT) or even Aidan O'Rourke (formerly of Queens). Those lads wouldn't be cheap in that it would be a lot of miles, but O'Rourke would be a guy I'd be very interested to see get the nod - young, enthusiastic and with players almost certain to respect him, he could be an interesting call.

[Lone Shark]

regarding money i read a great qoute from former president peter quinn ,when asked about payments being made to managers under the table he replied he couldnt even find the table
maybe with a better possibly more ambitious supporter club or indeed approaching an investor within the county we could meet the demand of an o rourke or a hungry ex all ireland winner, its what we need badly.
all our players are not committed , they drink at will , not all may i add, sum are not fit.
paul o kelly has been offered how many county MANAGER jobs since offaly.?
as in life there are no guarantees, but if u drive a faster car you have a greater chance of winning

im happy with the ground and the relentless work that has gone on in making it a success
ask the people of westhmeath was the money on paidi well spent
ok he flopped in clare but he brought in a new squad sum just 17 and 18 who defeated waterford this year,
ask the people of clare was maughan worth the money??
or kildare micko? or maybe we should ask ourselves are we happy watching other teams grace croke park come june?

I don't know how much money you think the supporters club can suddenly "find" or where all these hidden investors are that no-one thought of asking before, but even assuming we could find such a manager, it very much remains to be seen whether it would be of any value.

You're very selective with your examples btw. Westmeath got every poxy break under the sun when Páidí was there, he got them relegated as well and you must tbe the only person in Ireland who would give him any credit for his time in Clare. I like Maughan very much, but he only started commanding big money AFTER the Clare success. He got feck all for managing Mayo either - and his record outside of there is poor.

Now look at Leinster this year. Three teams still standing, certainly the best three teams in the province. Not a big name manager between them, while Luke Dempsey, Kieran McGeeney, Pat Roe, Mick O'Dwyer and Paul Bealin all of whom cost either huge money or relatively big money for that county have been brushed aside.

Look at the NFL champions, Munster finalists, Connacht finalists, and one Ulster finalist all managed by men from their own county, while the only exception is Fermanagh under Malachy O'Rourke - hardly a big name, albeit with some good club success behind him.

I remain very much unconvinced of the idea that a big name manager would be any help, and I am very much convinced that we couldn't afford it anyway - and you'll have to do a little better than presuming some un-named white knight or the already hard pressed supporters of this county will step up to the plate.

[Lone Shark]

When Matt Connor was a selector in the county set-up, rumour had it, and I say RUMOUR, that he believed there was no point looking for players past Clara. That was nice to hear.

I never heard that, and it would be a ridiculous thing to say if he did. Five senior clubs west of Clara, three senior clubs east of Tullamore - there's arguably a lot more underachievement over his part of the world than ours.

[gutless08]

I don't know how much money you think the supporters club can suddenly "find" or where all these hidden investors are that no-one thought of asking before, but even assuming we could find such a manager, it very much remains to be seen whether it would be of any value.

You're very selective with your examples btw. Westmeath got every poxy break under the sun when Páidí was there, he got them relegated as well and you must tbe the only person in Ireland who would give him any credit for his time in Clare. I like Maughan very much, but he only started commanding big money AFTER the Clare success. He got feck all for managing Mayo either - and his record outside of there is poor.

Now look at Leinster this year. Three teams still standing, certainly the best three teams in the province. Not a big name manager between them, while Luke Dempsey, Kieran McGeeney, Pat Roe, Mick O'Dwyer and Paul Bealin all of whom cost either huge money or relatively big money for that county have been brushed aside.

Look at the NFL champions, Munster finalists, Connacht finalists, and one Ulster finalist all managed by men from their own county, while the only exception is Fermanagh under Malachy O'Rourke - hardly a big name, albeit with some good club success behind him.

I remain very much unconvinced of the idea that a big name manager would be any help, and I am very much convinced that we couldn't afford it anyway - and you'll have to do a little better than presuming some un-named white knight or the already hard pressed supporters of this county will step up to the plate.

[/quote]

as much as i hate to admit it they beat us for the first time in 55 years and were the last team to beat dublin in a leinster champ game, and then laois. i woulnt call that poxy. maybe it was a coincidence that paidi took over,yeah rite, his time at clare was a failure but not wasted.
lets look at these guys in greater detail as right, dempsey has been a huge success in lngford, there competitive and took the scalp of there rivals westhmeath last year
mcgeeney, first year as county boss was awful ,poor team and he got it all wrong stylewise, wouldnt write him off at all though.
roe, well hes just a joke and sums up my argument about not getting a high profile boss, was never wanted by gutless 2 start with
micko ,well if u think his year is a failure ,look up wicklows last win in the championship
bealin, well anyone that was present in portlaoise last year knows how bad carlow are and i woulnt regard him high profile as such.
how exactly are we hard pressed?
ok im not in the business circles, but theres money in offaly too, did we never have a mike mcnamara, eamon cregan , sheep keating in charge or maybe they did it for free, all big names there. where theres a will there is a way as other more ambitious counties have proven.
ask the players would they want a brendan clarke type or a winner like o rourke on the line?or maybe it doesnt matter what the players want

[Lone Shark]

as much as i hate to admit it they beat us for the first time in 55 years and were the last team to beat dublin in a leinster champ game, and then laois. i woulnt call that poxy. maybe it was a coincidence that paidi took over,yeah rite, his time at clare was a failure but not wasted.
lets look at these guys in greater detail as right, dempsey has been a huge success in lngford, there competitive and took the scalp of there rivals westhmeath last year
mcgeeney, first year as county boss was awful ,poor team and he got it all wrong stylewise, wouldnt write him off at all though.
roe, well hes just a joke and sums up my argument about not getting a high profile boss, was never wanted by gutless 2 start with
micko ,well if u think his year is a failure ,look up wicklows last win in the championship
bealin, well anyone that was present in portlaoise last year knows how bad carlow are and i woulnt regard him high profile as such.
how exactly are we hard pressed?
ok im not in the business circles, but theres money in offaly too, did we never have a mike mcnamara, eamon cregan , sheep keating in charge or maybe they did it for free, all big names there. where theres a will there is a way as other more ambitious counties have proven.
ask the players would they want a brendan clarke type or a winner like o rourke on the line?or maybe it doesnt matter what the players want

If Fergal Wilson's ball was correctly flagged as wide then it would have been a draw, we would have eaten them alive in the replay (you can't tell me that Niall McNamee and Ciarán McManus would both have the worst game of their lives twice in a row) and Paidí would have gone home as a failure. Dublin hit the post on goal attempts against them twice, they got a very soft penalty to beat Wexford and in the final they needed a guy who only played on account of a judge's decree - you cannot tell me that they didn't get every break alive that year, breaks that somebody like Brendan Lowry never got when he was in charge.

Ask the people in Longford if a home win over Westmeath is classified as "huge success". They just about avoided relegation to the Tommy Murphy cup this year and were pathetic against Westmeath when they were there to be beaten in front of their home fans. I'm not trying to run him down, but this guy is on over twice what Pat Roe is getting - you and I have a very different concept of value for money if you think Longford county are the winners in that deal.

Micko has been in Wicklow for two years - yes, he won a championship game (only against another high profile manager mind) but he also failed utterly to get Wicklow out of division four, which they arguably needed even more than a championship win. He cost the county board an absolute fortune, money which could have been used looking after all the young players in the county and as we saw in Aughrim, those players are there. Whether they will remain when the house of cards crumbles after Micko goes remains to be seen - and it will crumble.

The hurling managers back then were in an era when managers weren't paid nearly as much, and when we could dangle the carrot of a potential All Ireland every year, or in Mike Mac's case, we were giving a job to a guy that had never managed a team before - hardly big name. Certainly neither Cregan nor Mike Mac would have been bigger names coming in than Pat Roe was in football terms.

In terms of being hard pressed, we have hit up every business man/woman in Offaly for every penny they could spare for the O'Connor Park project, a project that will benefit all of us for as long as we live. We had real tangible benefits to offer those benefactors in return - seats, press coverage, increased business in the town... how exactly do we tell Johnny Deeppockets that he'll get a return on the €150k he stumps up to bring Micko or his equivalent to town?

As for what the players want, well that's another matter. What the players want and what they should get are not always the same thing. Ask players if they should be paid and most of them will say yes, but they would be wrong. The county board has a responsibility to all participants and club members in the whole county - not just the 30 footballers and 30 hurlers that are deemed to be the best we have. Sometimes the best interests of both those communities are served at once, and sometimes they aren't - and I would argue very strongly that a big name manager would not serve the county well at all.

[gutless08]

see below

[gutless08]

If Fergal Wilson's ball was correctly flagged as wide then it would have been a draw, we would have eaten them alive in the replay (you can't tell me that Niall McNamee and Ciarán McManus would both have the worst game of their lives twice in a row) and Paidí would have gone home as a failure. Dublin hit the post on goal attempts against them twice, they got a very soft penalty to beat Wexford and in the final they needed a guy who only played on account of a judge's decree - you cannot tell me that they didn't get every break alive that year, breaks that somebody like Brendan Lowry never got when he was in charge.

Ask the people in Longford if a home win over Westmeath is classified as "huge success". They just about avoided relegation to the Tommy Murphy cup this year and were pathetic against Westmeath when they were there to be beaten in front of their home fans. I'm not trying to run him down, but this guy is on over twice what Pat Roe is getting - you and I have a very different concept of value for money if you think Longford county are the winners in that deal.

Micko has been in Wicklow for two years - yes, he won a championship game (only against another high profile manager mind) but he also failed utterly to get Wicklow out of division four, which they arguably needed even more than a championship win. He cost the county board an absolute fortune, money which could have been used looking after all the young players in the county and as we saw in Aughrim, those players are there. Whether they will remain when the house of cards crumbles after Micko goes remains to be seen - and it will crumble.

The hurling managers back then were in an era when managers weren't paid nearly as much, and when we could dangle the carrot of a potential All Ireland every year, or in Mike Mac's case, we were giving a job to a guy that had never managed a team before - hardly big name. Certainly neither Cregan nor Mike Mac would have been bigger names coming in than Pat Roe was in football terms.

In terms of being hard pressed, we have hit up every business man/woman in Offaly for every penny they could spare for the O'Connor Park project, a project that will benefit all of us for as long as we live. We had real tangible benefits to offer those benefactors in return - seats, press coverage, increased business in the town... how exactly do we tell Johnny Deeppockets that he'll get a return on the €150k he stumps up to bring Micko or his equivalent to town?

As for what the players want, well that's another matter. What the players want and what they should get are not always the same thing. Ask players if they should be paid and most of them will say yes, but they would be wrong. The county board has a responsibility to all participants and club members in the whole county - not just the 30 footballers and 30 hurlers that are deemed to be the best we have. Sometimes the best interests of both those communities are served at once, and sometimes they aren't - and I would argue very strongly that a big name manager would not serve the county well at all.

were going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
you cant beat offaly ,wex, dub at home and laois with luck,ok things ran well for them, but they had an edge to them that year.
as for micko , well you must be on ur own if you think hes done nothing in wicklow, as for underage , he has kids wanting to play ball cause they seen there team win games, play in croke park, win tommy murphy .hes created a buzz.

pat roe as big a name as eamon cregan? that beggers belief , a legend of a hurler, who has delivered as player and manager. youv lost me know lone shark

[/quote]

[Lone Shark]

were going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
you cant beat offaly ,wex, dub at home and laois with luck,ok things ran well for them, but they had an edge to them that year.
as for micko , well you must be on ur own if you think hes done nothing in wicklow, as for underage , he has kids wanting to play ball cause they seen there team win games, play in croke park, win tommy murphy .hes created a buzz.

pat roe as big a name as eamon cregan? that beggers belief , a legend of a hurler, who has delivered as player and manager. youv lost me know lone shark

I'm not disagreeing that Westmeath did okay that year, but I'm saying that they got a lot of luck which they didn't get under Lowry or Dempsey. Micko's legacy in Wicklow will be judged after he leaves, because certainly he hasn't put anything significant on the mantlepiece while he was there. As for the Tommy Murphy, well that'll be remembered in the same breath as the Centenary Cup, or indeed the Millenium Cup in Offaly - a grand tournament, amusing at the time but of no relevance - indeed many would say even that description overstates the significance of the TM Cup.

As for Roe vs Cregan, you can't compare them now - I'm saying that when Pat Roe came to Offaly his credentials were not dis-similar to those of Cregan when he came in - some potential, but no big success. You cannot compare Cregan the All Ireland winner with the Cregan that we took on. That's a bit like saying Meath took on a big name manager when they took on Seán Boylan in 1982.

I think agreeing to disagree is as close as we're going to get....

[gutless08]

[
see below
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[gutless08]

[

goinI'm not disagreeing that Westmeath did okay that year, but I'm saying that they got a lot of luck which they didn't get under Lowry or Dempsey. Micko's legacy in Wicklow will be judged after he leaves, because certainly he hasn't put anything significant on the mantlepiece while he was there. As for the Tommy Murphy, well that'll be remembered in the same breath as the Centenary Cup, or indeed the Millenium Cup in Offaly - a grand tournament, amusing at the time but of no relevance - indeed many would say even that description overstates the significance of the TM Cup.

As for Roe vs Cregan, you can't compare them now - I'm saying that when Pat Roe came to Offaly his credentials were not dis-similar to those of Cregan when he came in - some potential, but no big success. You cannot compare Cregan the All Ireland winner with the Cregan that we took on. That's a bit like saying Meath took on a big name manager when they took on Seán Boylan in 1982.

I think agreeing to disagree is as close as we're g to get....

think so
without luck you could fill croke park with medals

ther first win in years in the championship, there a poor team and got close to a win but micko just gave them that extra belief , tommy murphy cup wouldnt mean anything to me or you but tell those players of wicklow it meant nothing.

well roe was an average player, whereas cregan was a legend on the biggest stage thus gaining instant respect, plus he had years of top club expierience and managing clare in the heat of munster battle
not a fair comparison about boylan, the guy was hurling coach that took an unwanted football job.[/quote]

[Silken Thomas]

When Matt Connor was a selector in the county set-up, rumour had it, and I say RUMOUR, that he believed there was no point looking for players past Clara. That was nice to hear.

I heard that too somehow, somewhere.

[bula bula]

Agree with gutless here to a certain extent. Definitely feel that what Micko has done for any county he has gone to, is to get interest going along with supplying some decent wins. As the saying goes " sucess breeds sucess ". This also puts the spotlight on the team and gets kids dreaming about playing for the county. You cannot put a price on this. Some of the others mentioned have done this but maybe to a lesser extent. I think the stadium is looking fantastic and will be something to rightly be proud of when its finished but lets not forget about the talent that will be showcased there.

[azoffaly]

When Matt Connor was a selector in the county set-up, rumour had it, and I say RUMOUR, that he believed there was no point looking for players past Clara. That was nice to hear.

I heard that too somehow, somewhere.

Sounds like Urban Legend North Offaly propoganda to me Sure when Matt won his All Ireland in 1982, there were 3 Ferbane men on the starting 15, and Tony McTeague wasn't bad either. Lads trying to rise you I'd say.