U-21 Hurling Club Championship

[Lone Shark]

Bergin did indeed find his feet, but to be honest I was quite surprised how Clareen did actually have a lot of depth. (In the first XV I mean) They weren't carrying passengers, and in particular Chris Connors at full back, Eanna Murphy at centre back and Darragh Coughlan on the wing were all very impressive.

It was a very deserved success, and while my gut feeling is that they'll still have too much to do in the final, I'm delighted for them and I would be genuinely supporting them in the final. (If only for the reason that it's ridiculous that an area the size of Drumcullen can't field by themselves - I'm not blaming K/K for taking them in but they are way too big a club to not be able to find fifteen lads aged between 17 and 21 who would be willing to line out)

[beirut]

Drumcullen were on their own last year with about 5 strong hurlers and got annihilated by a strong Kinnitty team and a strong Seir Kieran team (as is there for all to see now) joined together!!

Drumcullen couldn't field an U14, U16, U18 team for the last few years because of lack of numbers. They might have been able to field their own team at U21 this year but with only an 'A' grade available, what was the point turning up against Birr or St. Malachy's in the first round and getting hockied?

[Lone Shark]

I just personally don't equate "can't field" with "can't field fifteen strong hurlers". This is not a tiny parish the size of Lusmagh or Clareen here, it's a fairly big chunk of prime Offaly hurling area with a massive tradition. If ye can't harness that to get lads out there is something wrong.

I agree however that there should be a "B" competition. Shamrocks, Na Fianna and even Coolderry could all have used that this year.

[The Dash]

Just for the record LS and Beirut before it turns into a debate. Regardless of the situation and the size of the area, Drumcullen would not have been able to field fifteen hurlers between the ages of 17 and 21, there just not there simple as. It is not like there is fifteen togging with kk. There were 3 starting and 3 subs, and Dermot Gath is serving a suspension. At the time of permissions and amalgamations, Drumcullen went to Co. Board with the intention of not fielding an u-21 team. K/K wndered why, and they thought it would be logical to join forces as was they case with their minor and u-16 teams as KK are weak at those ages. Drumcullen agreed and it went forward as a proposal. Last year Drumcullen fielded a team, albeit the bare fifteen and apart from KK and Rynaghs they were the only non-amalgamted club. they came up against a Kinnitty/Clareen side with a very weak team and got beat 7 28 to 8pts or swomething similar, and have something like 7 overage from then. Surely they deserve a break and possibly success at this grade as it is not the players fault of the situation they are in.

[baz]

the problem with drumcullen is while its a big area ,the population relative to that area ia small .clareen were impressive and eugene cloughlan from what ive been told is doing a master job with them and it showed the other night .great to see kk and clareen in the final .could it be that these two will be the main players at senior grade in the next year or two ?

[beirut]

It might not be the same in size as Lusmagh or Clareen but at the moment the pick from the underage crop is similar or less! Why didn't Shinrone go on their own, how about Ferbane/Belmont, even Carrig/R and Crinkle could have managed on their own? I'm not sure about the 'B' competition but maybe when clubs are joined up, they could be joined up more evenly, but I'm not sure how this could be implemented, fair play if you managed to join Drumcullen up with Coolderry.

It was only 8:18 to 8 points so don't be to displeased the Dash. I counted 14 off the top of my head and I'm sure ye could have digged out another 2-3 if was life or death. Last years Kinnitty/Seir Kieran team seemed very strong on paper but it just didn't work out for them on the pitch.

I think they're gonna start throwing up Council houses in the Fivealley so that might help with numbers.

baz I'm not sure if K/K would have got this far without the Drumcullen lads.

[Lone Shark]

Not being too au fait with the general geography around Fivealley/Rath/Eglish I'll backttrack on this one, though it is utterly remarkable that an area that big is so sparse that there aren't fifteen bodies of that age group.

I do think lack of participation is a widespread problem. I'm not trying to single out particular clubs here, but there does seem to a be a big variation in how good clubs are at mobilising "every able body" so to speak. In that regard I don't think the amalgamations are a good thing because it makes it acceptable for a club to only have one or two players born in any given year, which is not sustainable in the long run. Equally the standard I've seen in the under 21 football and hurling in recent years is quite high, so once again I'm conscious of "hobby" players being frozen out. I know some people think that's no bad thing, but I'm not a fan of it myself - it's not good where soccer and rugby looks after lads that aren't very good but we don't. The GAA can't continue as the main social outlet for a community that way.

[beirut]

Agree totally. I'm not sure about Lusmagh but in Clareen it seems that you hurl from 5 to 45 and if you're good 50-55!! It seems a kind of close knit community thing where it's just expected.

Can you be a hobby player in the GAA, maybe it's the skill level and the winter stoppage but you would have to have a good fitness and skill level to be able to make any sort of team compared to the likes of rugby and soccer where you can just turn up (I'm probably talking more 5 aside soccer here)?

[baz]

beruit ,you hit the nail on the head about communitty (spirit) ,when you look at amalgamations very closely they really dont work .the gaa is built on communitty spirit and pride in your jersey ,which a lot of our youth nowadays just dont seem to get .

[Lone Shark]

Likewise I'd be next door to Doon football where they are equally adept at getting every single pair of legs chasing around Lackagh pitch, putting some other clubs to shame. I am aware that this is easier in a small rural area than in towns where there are more distractions for people, but even so it's a big bugbear of mine.


I'll put my bias on the table here - I am utterly useless and I find it very hard to keep going despite being the worst lad at training by a country mile every week. This is not because I'm a fat lump, I put a decent amount of work into being fit, and while I'm not intercounty fit I'd hold my own with a good chunk of senior club players. To be fair the trainers and lads in the club are as sound as they come, but there's just no masking the fact that even if I trained with a Kieran McGeeney like fervour, Junior A football is just too good for my two left feet and unrivalled ability to misjudge a high ball by a full five yards. And there is nowhere else for me to go. I'll keep going because I love the game, but the lack of a third team in the club is killing me, and there is no way there aren't plenty of other lads like me around town who would be my standard but don't do it because they're not good enough - as you say they play five a side soccer, CCFL and sometimes rugby for Buccaneers 7ths and the likes. (I played CCFL myself - I'm no better at, I don't like it as much but I got to kick a ball for ninety minutes once a week - there's a lot to be said for it). I know these guys are there because I could name them. But they don't play football because not everyone enjoys training despite being of no discernable ability, so instead I plug away by myself with everyone running rings around me.

The reason I put that on the table is that I do strongly believe in this cause, but it is coloured by my own situation. However under 21 is huge in this regard. It's a big age group just at the time when people have plenty to be doing - and by not having B competitions, clubs like Drumcullen end up amalgamating and furthering the problem of the not very good player having no team to hurl with, while at the same time eroding the proud history of what is after all one of the blue chip hurling clubs in the county.

I'm thinking of 40 odd years ago when Drumcullen and Coolderry were the be all and end all of Offaly hurling, the very notion back then that Drumcullen players would have to go to an upstart club (at the time, no offence meant to KK folk!!) to play hurling would have been nonsensical. I don't know what those in the corridors of power in Drumcullen club are saying about this situation, but they and a lot of others have some serious questions to ask of themselves.


Baz, I don't think the youth of today miss the point any more than the 18 year olds of years gone by do. I think the point is that in the race for quality there seems to be a lack of concern for the fact that clubs need bodies. A good hurler is obviously of more use to a club than a bad hurler, but the bad hurler who enjoys the game and gets to be part of it often goes on to be just as valuable if not more so as the club secretary, or treasurer, or U-12 trainer or any one of the gazillion things that a modern GAA club needs volunteers to do. When the club he is supposed to love can't even provide a friggin team for him to play on, why is he expected to carrying on loving unrequited? Every single club member in ireland got involved somewhere along the line because they liked kicking a ball or hurling a ball or indeed playing handball first, and just wanted to play. All that "love of parish and club" stuff just comes along as you get older and you begin to realise that it's about more than just the ball you kick or hurl. Take away that spirit of participation for everyone and your heart of the community stuff will die in time too.

[Treasurer]

it makes it acceptable for a club to only have one or two players born in any given year

Em.... what exactly do you think we should be doing to increase the "unacceptable" birth rates?

I do think lack of participation is a widespread problem

It might be a problem in bigger clubs where it's hard to cater for everyone, but there's a serious problem with population decline in many rural clubs where the numbers simply aren't there.

[Lone Shark]

Touché. (I may have to change jobs at this rate, if my phrasing continues to be that bad!!)


Obviously I'm not advocating that club officials go around to houses in the community sabotaging contraceptives. The legal ramifications of that would be at least as much of a threat as declining numbers after all.

I would suggest that if there are quite literally only one or two births per gender in a club's catchment area in a given year, then that club is quite simply not viable in the long run. It means that if you count those likely to play adult games as those aged between 18 and 36, you have 27 of each gender to choose from in the parish. That's a full panel, providing a 100% participation rate - hardly likely. I don't mean to paint a grim picture, but if that is the scenario any club is facing, then there is no way they can continue as an entity in the long run.

However I do not accept for one minute that in Eglish parish there were only 8 lads born between the years of 1984-1987 inclusive. My point is that there are lads of that age not taking part. Again, 100% participation will not happen, but that to me suggests a partication rate of what, 1 in 3? 1 in 4? That is not good enough.

incidentally i don't think the problem is catering for everyone either. I think clubs would be well able for more players, but the general standard of club football/hurling has been raised so high that hobby players don't have a place any more and there are barriers in place preventing clubs from fielding extra teams rather than incentives as there should be.

[Treasurer]

Touché. (I may have to change jobs at this rate, if my phrasing continues to be that bad!!)

Sorry, couldn't resist it

[beirut]

Could it be the girls in Drumcullen who are at fault, concentrating to much on Camogie and not bearing young hurlers??

Drumcullen fielded a third hurling team and a junior football team last year even though the "numbers aren't there" (quote by an club official), to provide hurling for the lads who couldn't make training or couldn't be arsed training. Now while not many of them trained much, they had a few practice matches and played two championship matches, albeit with 2 heavy defeats. But turnout at the matches wasn't a problem, 25 against Ballyskenagh. Now forward to the AGM where they were told not to be embarrassing club, either everyone down training next year or pull the team the following year. Not much community spirit there!! (A few "strong" hurlers will be with them this year so hopefully they'll stick it up that club officials arse). p.s. sorry for ranting.

I think it's a grand this year to enter any sort of a team.

[Lone Shark]

Could it be the girls in Drumcullen who are at fault, concentrating to much on Camogie and not bearing young hurlers??

Drumcullen fielded a third hurling team and a junior football team last year even though the "numbers aren't there" (quote by an club official), to provide hurling for the lads who couldn't make training or couldn't be arsed training. Now while not many of them trained much, they had a few practice matches and played two championship matches, albeit with 2 heavy defeats. But turnout at the matches wasn't a problem, 25 against Ballyskenagh. Now forward to the AGM where they were told not to be embarrassing club, either everyone down training next year or pull the team the following year. Not much community spirit there!! (A few "strong" hurlers will be with them this year so hopefully they'll stick it up that club officials arse). p.s. sorry for ranting.

I think it's a grand this year to enter any sort of a team.

Ranting always welcome!!

I wasn't even talking about lads not willing to train - just lads who aren't willing to go down to a field and burst themselves trying to get fit when they know full well that they're going to have a feed of pints at the weekend and a breakfast roll on Monday morning. I honestly think that there are a lot of clubs where if training consisted of a decent but not excessive stressful warmup, followed by stretching, a couple of light ball drills and a practice match, lads would enjoy it. None of this running around cones garbage - if I want to run I can do that in my own time, and many players will choose to do that. I can't play a game of football in my own time because I don't have a scatter of team mates and an acre of grass just on hand.

The fact that it costs a grand to enter a team is a big drawback. This is what I mean about participation being incentivised rather than discouraged. If they need to replace the funds, then have a club levy based loosely around the population in your catchment area. (I'm not trying to suggest Birr should pay 20 times what Clareen does but maybe different brackets - ABCD, paying €5k, €3k, €2k and €1k respectively). That way the funds are still collected but clubs don't have a disincentive to field teams - which is one of the most bizarre anomalies ever.