Roe names strong side

[Lone Shark]

LS, Coughlan is back training with the panel while both Hunt and Phelan (Rugby commitments) turned down invitations to go in back in November.

I presumed Coughlan would be back at some stage, I wouldn't know Trevor to know whether he was called or not but I've heard very differently regarding Damien Hunt. I'm guessing it was probably a loaded invitation of some sort.


Now, taking the whole Niall Kelly thing, I'll agree that it reads fairly harshly and I was a big part of that. However I do think the case stands up to scrutiny. The issue of 2007 games aside, I have seen him play for Doon several times, and I'm not lying when I say I can't ever remember a game where he scored more than a single point. Now it's all very well to say maybe that's not the main part of his game, but even county forwards who are more about the fetching and carrying still tend to score heavily at club level regularly enough.

2. He transferred to Doon from Castledaly where he almost, single handedly won them a senior count final in 2003 (i think). The talent is there and anyone in Mullingar that day had him pencilled into the future WH senior squad.

I'm going to presume you meant the 2002 Westmeath final rather than 2004 - I was at both having plenty of Castledaly connections, and if memory serves he didn't play in 2004. 2002 was a game where Castledaly were never at the races, and much like all year long, it was JP Casey doing the brunt of the scoring. Niall lined out in the corner, if memory serves he moved to the wing but despite showing flashes of potential he was swimming against the tide in what was a landslide of a match. I'm not sure how that can be interpreted as almost single handedly winning the game. Hoganstand has him down for scoring 0-2 that day - hardly a matchwinning total on a day when the three intercounty forwards on display all scored 0-4, 0-4 and 2-0 respectively.

He was invited in as part of the 109 panel and much like any other panelist at this time, he has worked ho socks off and looks in great shape. I dont hear anyone from the offaly panel complaining about his inclusion either.

I don't want to turn this thread into speculation about who's not getting on with who, or guessing as to who does Lone Shark know that MF35 doesn't, but I suggest you're talking to different people than who I am. I don't hear anyone complaining, but I have heard a few speculating as to how on Earth he's got this far.


Once again, I apologise to the man himself if any of this seems harsh, and none of it is meant to be personal - it's just football. Nobody could be expected to turn down playing the opportunity of for their county, and by all accounts (and this is widely accepted) he's putting every ounce of effort into putting his best foot forward. As a supporter one can't ask any more than that. However we are in the unusual situation where in four weeks time we go to Belfast for an absolutely crucial league match which will have a huge bearing on the championship. After Antim's win yesterday, it means that a loss there would leave us needing wins in both Aughrim and Ennis to get our shot at the backdoor back. We are not like most counties in that regard - we need to be operating at 80% or higher by then, and that's why there is no small amount of frustration that a guy who has no track record at club level in Offaly, no massive underage pedigree, did nothing outstanding as a sub in the O'Byrne Cup and wasn't even playing football last summer is in there while guys that have proven themselves to a much greater degree lie idle. No-one expects Niall Kelly not to line out if selected, but on the other hand we can question the wisdom of the choice in the first place.

If he's not up to it that will be seen in the games quite quickly.

That's a big concern - it mightn't be. That's how bad a lot of our opposition are.

[Silken Thomas]

Humble pie is a disgusting dish. I will be big enough to say this;

Fair play he seems to be putting in the effort.
I did not see Niall Kelly play so last year.
My comment regarding Niall Kellys water-holding abilities was tongue firmly in cheek.
And it is quite cowardly to say these things through the cloak of anonymity.

However having seen Niall Kelly specifically in the 2006 senior championship dovetailing between midfield and half-forward against Shamrocks( in Ballycumber) and (relegation play off) Shannonbridge( in O'Connor Park), I will say this;

Niall Kelly is an average club player.
Niall Kelly is not strong.
Niall Kellys two feet are rarely in use.
Niall Kelly is not a big scorer.
Niall Kelly is not one of the best thirty players in Offaly.

I don't know Niall Kelly and have nothing against him but I fear for Offaly if he is an option for us. With four very tricky away ties in this league we cannot have passengers. We have to get out of Division four this year and I am bloody worried.

Finally I have a question for this board. Are you comfortable with this level of Nepotism in our County?
I for one am certainly not.

[Bord na Mona man]

Finally I have a question for this board. Are you comfortable with this level of Nepotism in our County?
I for one am certainly not.

As soon as anyone picks a relation, or a person from the same club they'll have that thrown at them.
Regardless of how good the player might be.

[MF35]

Finally I have a question for this board. Are you comfortable with this level of Nepotism in our County?
I for one am certainly not.[/quote]

Whats the idea of a management team then??
Are yoiu suggesting the Mr Rigney is bullying Mr Roe and Mr Molloy into picking who he wants? Im sure that if Pat Roe and Laz Molloy thought a player wasnt up to the standard, they'd say it!

[Lone Shark]

It's probably a little bit simplistic to assume that every player has the clear support of at least two out of the three men on the management team. I've never been on a football team management committee in my life, but I've been on plenty of panels and committees in a work context and quite often if one member of the group wants something enough, and other members have no strong feelings, or maybe are going along with these things for the sake of gaining support on another issue, things can get approved.

I'm not saying for a minute this happened - this is pure speculation on my part - but if one selector was absolutely adamant over a player, perhaps the other guys might let it ride on the basis that one fringe player is not a huge concession for the sake of harmony among the selectors as a group.

Also, it's one thing going against a player, it's another thing going against a player and family. I'd say if Roe or Molloy had watery feelings along those lines they'd find it difficult to bring it up - perhaps picking him for a London game in order to let him prove that he's not quite at this standard was the path of least resistance?

All speculation, but all I'm saying is don't presume anything.

[Muck Savage]

Look, I aplaud the management for trying to look under every rock in the county. 109 players were asked to go in and about 50% showed interest. I guarentee that there are 5-7 players in the current 30-35 players that are not in the top 30 in the county but I'd sooner have lads in there that want to put a bit of pride in the jersey than lads that don't care about playing. I would look to it being similar to say Frank Weir a few years ago, by far one of the best tallents in the county for many years but didn't want to put in the effort which is fair enough. I don't think people lambasted him because he didn't want to (or wasn't able to) put in the effort. Likewise here, I'm sure I could name 5-7 players better than the ones on the panel but they choose not to put in the effort, fine, so why pull shots at lads that do want to put in the effort but maybe not as tallented?
Now, London was going to be a win so trying a few other lads out I think is fair enough. When Antrim, Wicklow, Clare and Carlow come around we'll have a better idea of what we have by trying everyone in a competitive game. If yesterdays game was against one of these then I'd be concerned as we need to play players that have shown well in the competitive games up to now. Give them a chance to try the different lads out, try them out in certian positions/game plans. Some players don't always shine at club level but can do a job in a paticular system. Take Grennan playing corner back last year, what position has he played his club football for the past few years?

[Lone Shark]

Look, I aplaud the management for trying to look under every rock in the county. 109 players were asked to go in and about 50% showed interest. I guarentee that there are 5-7 players in the current 30-35 players that are not in the top 30 in the county but I'd sooner have lads in there that want to put a bit of pride in the jersey than lads that don't care about playing. I would look to it being similar to say Frank Weir a few years ago, by far one of the best tallents in the county for many years but didn't want to put in the effort which is fair enough. I don't think people lambasted him because he didn't want to (or wasn't able to) put in the effort. Likewise here, I'm sure I could name 5-7 players better than the ones on the panel but they choose not to put in the effort, fine, so why pull shots at lads that do want to put in the effort but maybe not as tallented?

That would be fine if we were like Roscommon fans and advocating that some Frankie Dolan-esque figure be picked instead - but we're not. Niall Kelly is putting in the effort and that's fine - but to the best of my knowledge, so are Casey, O'Hara and Egan, the obvious alternatives. Thus the commitment ceases to be a differential between them, and we're back to the players involved.

If somebody wants to claim that Kelly is a lot fitter or faster than these guys, then that's another matter entirely - but I don't think anyone is doing that.

[Muck Savage]

That would be fine if we were like Roscommon fans and advocating that some Frankie Dolan-esque figure be picked instead - but we're not. Niall Kelly is putting in the effort and that's fine - but to the best of my knowledge, so are Casey, O'Hara and Egan, the obvious alternatives. Thus the commitment ceases to be a differential between them, and we're back to the players involved.

But O'Hara, Casey and Egan have already had a competitive O'Byrne cup game if I'm not correct. I believe each lad should be given a chance in a 80% full team to see how they play with the almost sure of starting players. This comes from my own experience in there a few years ago where I was standing on the outside looking in most of the time with about 10 other lads, then we'd all be put in against some strong side in a challange game. The team is then very weak and thus very difficult to show that you can do anything because you swimming against the tide most of the time. I think that two or three of the newer lads should be mixed in with the senior lads to give them a fair shot at it, like what happened last weekend where 3 new lads got a start. We've seen O'Hara is good, We've seen Egan is good, We've seen Casey is good, so does that mean we kick the feet back and say we've enough good lads? Against weak competition it's the perfect chance to give another couple of lads a shot is it not? or should we wait until we're a couple of points down against against Clare in one of the last games and maybe a few injuries to see what we've got.
I'm not saying that the three lads above are putting in a less effort than Kelly so Kelly should be playing, what I'm saying is all the lads need to given an equal shot at it, if they then don't show well fine. Everyone of them are putting in the same effort, same personal comittments etc. so why not give everyone of them the same chance? That's the least bit of respect any of them deserve if their putting in the comittment and effort for the county to try get some bit of pride back in the jersey.

[Mighty Pair O' Hands]

If he's not up to it that will be seen in the games quite quickly.

That's a big concern - it mightn't be. That's how bad a lot of our opposition are.

Are you saying that from (an albeit lower standard) 7 Div 4 league games and challenge games and training, that a manager and selectors will be unable to determine if a player is worthy of his place in the squad ?

[Blackthorn Man]

That would be fine if we were like Roscommon fans and advocating that some Frankie Dolan-esque figure be picked instead - but we're not. Niall Kelly is putting in the effort and that's fine - but to the best of my knowledge, so are Casey, O'Hara and Egan, the obvious alternatives. Thus the commitment ceases to be a differential between them, and we're back to the players involved.

But O'Hara, Casey and Egan have already had a competitive O'Byrne cup game if I'm not correct. I believe each lad should be given a chance in a 80% full team to see how they play with the almost sure of starting players. This comes from my own experience in there a few years ago where I was standing on the outside looking in most of the time with about 10 other lads, then we'd all be put in against some strong side in a challange game. The team is then very weak and thus very difficult to show that you can do anything because you swimming against the tide most of the time. I think that two or three of the newer lads should be mixed in with the senior lads to give them a fair shot at it, like what happened last weekend where 3 new lads got a start. We've seen O'Hara is good, We've seen Egan is good, We've seen Casey is good, so does that mean we kick the feet back and say we've enough good lads? Against weak competition it's the perfect chance to give another couple of lads a shot is it not? or should we wait until we're a couple of points down against against Clare in one of the last games and maybe a few injuries to see what we've got.
I'm not saying that the three lads above are putting in a less effort than Kelly so Kelly should be playing, what I'm saying is all the lads need to given an equal shot at it, if they then don't show well fine. Everyone of them are putting in the same effort, same personal comittments etc. so why not give everyone of them the same chance? That's the least bit of respect any of them deserve if their putting in the comittment and effort for the county to try get some bit of pride back in the jersey.

Couldn't agree more. Try these lads that have an interest and let management make the call on their ability. Although ground conditions don't suit some players last Sunday was the time to try Niall and see how he got on. I believe he was substituted at half time so maybe for him his chance has come and gone,who knows at this point. Some of the above comments about his talent are outrageous and unacceptable. These comments can be twinned with some of the childish and nonsensical comments made on Hogan Stand. I'm running out of patience with this site.

[DD]

Some of the above comments about his talent are outrageous and unacceptable. These comments can be twinned with some of the childish and nonsensical comments made on Hogan Stand.

I have to agree with this. Looking at the slating the lad has got on this thread you'd think he was solely responsible for the current state of Offaly football

[green&white]

Sorry to be harpering on again, but I do believ ethis sort of situation regarding unwarrented abuse towards players and individuals is exatcly why i started a full topic on it. Niall Kelly (never heard of him before this) certainly does not deserve this treatment. As far as I can interpret readin into the situation, he was offered an oportuntiy to commit to the county, and he didnt ask twice what was aksed of him. Fair play is all I can say!
Not wanting to get into a debate on this, however:
Imagine for one minute he read this?? How could you say this wouldnt affect him? ( and some people might!)
Would you as a person like this written about you in any sense of your life ( sport, work, family life etc.)??

[Hyper]

Surely Roe could have gave a few others a run out on Sunday. If James Keane was unfit to start the game how could he have been deemed fit enough to replace Rafferty (inj) with 10 minutes remaining? This can't be very encouraging for the other guys on the bench. Come later on in the league he will be looking for these guys to come in and they will be well short of match practice.

[turk]

Sorry to be harpering on again, but I do believ ethis sort of situation regarding unwarrented abuse towards players and individuals is exatcly why i started a full topic on it. Niall Kelly (never heard of him before this) certainly does not deserve this treatment. As far as I can interpret readin into the situation, he was offered an oportuntiy to commit to the county, and he didnt ask twice what was aksed of him. Fair play is all I can say!
Not wanting to get into a debate on this, however:
Imagine for one minute he read this?? How could you say this wouldnt affect him? ( and some people might!)
Would you as a person like this written about you in any sense of your life ( sport, work, family life etc.)??

I agree, it's very disappointing

[Bord na Mona man]

Well if the lad has put in as much effort as mentioned here and has worked hard to get himself into contention, then fair play to him.
I don't see the harm in giving him a run either. It was only London after all.

Lots of players get written off very early in their careers by coaches and managers and are allowed to stagnate in their career and skills development. Anyone who keeps on working and makes strides to improve is to be welcomed.

If he is good enough, all the better, if not, then there's no shame in that. Either way, I hope the experience of being on a county panel stands to him and his club.