Cork GAA dispute

[Sydthebeat]

reading all these it seems to me that the cork players have been clear on exactly what they want....

have they a problem with a democratically selected decision.. .or are they arguing that the 'democratic' process is incorrect or somehow unlawful??
if they dont have a problem with Holland then why doesnt the board let holland select his own selectors... or would they have a problem with this as well... (someone else may have posted that, sorry..)

i have to admit, im being pulled towards LS take on this.... if these players dont want to play under the established scheme.. then dont. They are not 'workers'... they dont have workers rights. They are volunteers are they not???? If anyone is part of a team or committee the time to air their grievences is at the AGM... did they do this??? if they were defeated then put up or shut up.

[The Biff]

Does anyone else suspect that maybe the impetus behind the players "doggedness" in this dispute might be coming from the GPA? For a very prominent dispute involving players, I think Dessie Farrell's silence has been absolutely amazing. Now maybe it's a case that he is happy to let Dónal Óg lead the way locally and lobby their case in the local meetings, but such restraint from Dessie has not been common before.

p.s. I see Teddy Holland got yet another Vote of Approval from a meeting of Cork County Board last night, as did Frank Murphy and the Executive. Is it soon time for the relevant Club Chairmen to call around to their local County Star's houses and remind them that they are also representing their Clubs while playing for the County, and that there is a democratic process that has been followed here, and .........

[Sydthebeat]

as a result of some behind the scenes investigations iv done this is what ive discovered.

The players are the ones directly effected by the change of policy for the county board to choose the selectors, therefore the democratic argument goes out the window, the players are most effected, they dont want to select the selectors, they want the manager to do this. The policy was changed with the firm intention of getting rid of Billy Morgan. The players main gripe is that they want the manager to have complete control over the team, including the selection of the selectors. This would not have come to a head had Holland not accepted the position. He was at least the 7-8th choice for manager and all before him refuse the position because of the situation with the selection process... all others refused stating they had the best interests of Cork GAA at heart. If Holland has the 'best interests of Cork GAA at heart' then he should stand aside too, but he wont because he is a CB yes man.
A lot of the concessions won by the team in the 02 strike have systematically been clawed back by the county board. An example was a football game last year when the 43 members of staff and team went to hotel for dinner, the found out that the county board only ordered 30 dinners... this is an example of the petty adversarial position of the CB. There also seems to be an apparent dislike from the CB to the status and position of the GPA

[DD]

The bottom line is that the players are the only ones that can take on the County Board. No official (or group of officials) would take on Murphy and live to tell the tale such is the power he excerts over Cork GAA..

[ballymanabroad]

The thing is they are not 'on strike' they have just 'withdrawn their services'. The next step is to ask the next best 60 footballers and hurlers to compete for Cork . I asked a mate down in Cork , who would probably be in that next tier whether he would consider it and he told me not in a million years. Imagine the strife that would be created if they did? 60 scabs in a Cork jersey. His words, not mine.



If our best hurlers and footballers withdrew their services I would never take their place even if I was good enough, would you?



Regarding Teddy Holland. As Sean Óg stated in his article, it isn't a personality clash but they want him to step down as manager because the players feel he never should have taken the job under the circumstances. The players publicly requested that nobody would take the manager's position until the selection issue was sorted out. 6 former Cork players were asked to take the job and all declined until Teddy Holland accepted it. So the players feel aggreived that the man who will soon be telling them what to do cannot even respect a simple request. With that uncertainty and aggrivation in the air, all they could do was withdraw their services'.



I’ve included the article below.



A rebel clear about the cause

Interview Sean Og O'hAilpin: Tom Humphries gets the views of a modern legend about the players' strike that is quietly tearing Cork apart

Tick tick tick. Winter segues to spring and Seán Óg waits. Tick tick tick. The National Leagues are knocking on the door. Seán Óg waits. Monday he trained by himself in the gym. Tuesday he went hard with Na Piarsaigh. Wednesday he stepped off a plane from Dublin and into the gym again. Same old grind. Tick Tick Tick. He drinks his water, eats his fruit and his boiled chicken, stays ready to put on the jersey he loves and serves. Tick tick tick.

In a couple of weeks Cork are supposed to play the vaunted stripeymen of Kilkenny to inaugurate the league. That hurts. He feels the embarrassment of the fine old mess Cork are in every time he looks at Kilkenny and their relentless progressivism.

Kilkenny, he reckons, are like American athletes, always looking to find better ways of doing things. Cork are like the old Soviet bloc sweat merchants. Waiting for the politburo to nod. Waiting.

Seán Óg is on strike. Striking is something he never thought he would do once in his career. Let alone twice. He knows this time that, despite the service given and the All-Irelands won, the Cork public aren't with him and his comrades now. People meet him on the street and ask Seán Óg will it all be solved, and he says with a smile that he hopes so. He doesn't get abused personally, but friends tell him he and the players are getting it in the neck when the strike is discussed in saloon bars and clubhouse precincts and over water coolers.

Word is they couldn't be bothered playing. He can't understand that.

"I'm resigned to the fact that the National Hurling league, even if it was resolved next week, is effectively gone for us. We have Kilkenny first. Kilkenny have had games and proper sessions under their belts. We're not prepared. Any resolution now is about saving our championship, not the National League. Every day that goes by is eating into Cork 's championship."

The summer needs Cork . Fans, rivals, sponsors, television. The summer needs Cork . Seán Óg waits, but he is tired of waiting. He talks to lads every day and he feels the itch in them to get back, to save their summer. Every boyhood dream they shared revolved around summers in red.

The water is so muddy with propaganda now that it serves no one to attempt a forensic examination of who did what in that frenzied Punch and Judy match that started the current shenanigans. The players know they made mistakes, but feel they have engaged, tried to make compromises and take a long-term view. They feel, though, that they are being fed into the grinder this time; the complexity of the situation and the fact they are going to the well of public support for the second time is being used against them.

So Seán Óg is waiting and watching. He had a holiday in Australia over Christmas and came home to a scenario of both sides claiming to have done more bending over backwards than would be seen at a limbo-dance marathon. He wants long-term progress though. And quick.

"Within the top three or four teams in hurling and in football, given the quality that they have, winning comes down to the tiniest factors. You have to have everything right and everybody giving it their all.

"If you put Cork teams out under this system where a manager can't pick his own people to work with, you won't get the best managers or the best support teams. No decent manager will give his life over to working with people not of his choosing, knowing that he can't succeed. "

He is convinced the current impasse is a way of settling old scores from 2002.

"I'm certain about that. When the dust settled on 2002 the board had conceded a lot of stuff, a lot of the powers they enjoyed. They couldn't interfere with team affairs. Donal O'Grady and John Allen came in and took over the running of the team.

"Previous managers never got the same luxury, they had the county board on their shoulder all the time. People were lying in the long grass waiting, though."

He points out that nobody got sacked back in 2002. Things changed, but the people remained the same. The players wanted fair play and a structure that would let them compete on a level playing field.

"Before 2002 we were a joke. Galway hammered us that year. The next summer we contested an All-Ireland final. Why change now?"

When he reflects, though, he reckons it isn't all as sudden as it seems. It's not Change Now. It has been a process of attrition, a slow clawing back.

Last summer there was the Club Energiser business which came to a head. The county board were in bed with Coca-Cola, who wanted visibility for Powerade and RiverRock, their brands of energy drink and water. The players felt a commitment elsewhere.

"This isn't about the GPA, but we do like to support the GPA, we feel strongly about the voice it gives to players, we feel that under the GPA players - if not us, other players - benefit. Every Club Energiser bottle the GPA gets a cut. We were bringing Club Energiser bottles onto the pitch and drinking for a long time. There was that, and the high-handed manner it was done in."

Other troubles. They had problems suddenly with gyms, with training venues (he won't say a bad word about Fermoy, where the team train through the winter), but when the guys who are doing rehab work on injuries are done all the hot water is gone from the showers. What's left is cold water on a January or February night after a day's work and a hard session. It wears him down, and he has never known why the county board won't spend a little money to fix the problem.

Small clawbacks. Thirty meals booked in the Anner Hotel in Thurles after a championship qualifier this year. Taking players, managers, selectors, physios, doctor, runners, stats and video people, etc, into account, the team party is 45.

Niggles. The team used to have a person whose job was to look after conditions and arrangements when they travelled, making sure about hotels and food and just getting things right.

"The county board looked after that this year and it was a shambles. We're off training by ourselves, putting work in, eating properly and then turning up for matches, and, instead of pasta, fruit and boiled chicken, being thrown a heap of sandwiches.

"You see things being clawed back all the time. When we talk about the importance of preparation, you see they don't take us seriously. You're outside and these things seem small, but you can see them. But all of these things were building up. No one thing is what it's all about. It's not about chicken or sandwiches; it's about being pushed back to the way things were before 2002."

So come last autumn, with the footballers having lost heavily in the All-Ireland final and the hurlers no longer the darling buds of May, the hammer came down. You can see a certain genius in the thinking of the man who hatched the amendment. The proposal of a retrograde management system not only gave Billy Morgan a farewell kick in thanks for his service but also served as a shot across the bows of the uppity hurlers.

The gamble was that the footballers, chastened by their defeat, would accept a county board-imposed selection committee and that the hurlers, afraid to down tools again for a cause not directly theirs, would hold their peace and be forced to accept the system themselves next time around.

Nobody can stand up and say the management system being proposed is anything other than a backward step. It is a length of metal pipe being brandished to beat players over the heads.

The argument instead centres on a vote taken among people who were sick to death of hearing about players and their needs and their demands to have domestic fixtures moved. Does a vote among those people, a vote in favour of applying the length of metal pipe to the cranium of the players' collective, render all other considerations redundant? Must the players simply offer their heads (and the blood, sweat and tears of a season) because some suits in a room voted for it to be so? Seán Óg reckons not.

"People say to us players that we are better off concentrating on winning All-Irelands. That's what we are doing though. That's what this is about. The jersey. Respecting the jersey. We don't want anything more or extra. We just want the system we agreed, the system we have been playing under.

"We don't want to pick the selectors or the managers. We just want managers to be able to do their best for themselves and for us and for the people of Cork ."

He says the county board will only pick people who they think will toe the line.

"In turn, that cuts off a list of good, decent guys who would bring something more to the teams. You have to have the best possible management and support team in place or there will be no All-Irelands.

"We are all working away on our own now, eating right and training hard to be ready for the games. We want to play, but if we talk about preparing for All-Irelands we want to play under a system that doesn't handicap us. Would this happen in any other serious county? Do Kerry carry on like this in football? Do Kilkenny do it?

"I play to enjoy this game, but there is an onus on wearing the Cork jersey, which every one of us loves and adores and wears with pride. It's about All-Irelands and pride.

"There is an onus to give your best, and there is an onus on the county board to provide the best so you give the players the chance to be the best. I'd hate to see players coming after me being willing to die for the jersey but being doomed to fail every year because the best managers and selectors won't go near the county team. That disrespects the Cork jersey.

"When we go training in Fermoy, we have two things in mind: the Munster championship and Croke Park . If anyone thinks there is anything more important to us than the red jersey, they are wrong. It galls us. It hurts us. This jersey is massive to us. I'm 13 years playing for Cork . I have loved every moment in the jerseys. It galls me that we are in the situation that such a proud county as Cork would take its players and give them a second-rate set-up. Would this happen in any other county?"

In the interim, his sympathies are with his friend Donal Óg Cusack. Having stepped above the parapet in 2002 and become involved with the GPA, there is a perception that Donal Óg is pulling the strings of the county footballers rather than responding to an appeal for help. Seán Óg feels now that Donal Óg is labelled. Anything that is wrong between the players and the county board gets hung around Donal Óg's neck. He has, since 2002, been the Spartacus of hurling.

"Everyone blames Donal Óg! It's as if the rest of us are too stupid to notice what happens us. It isn't true in this case, and if a few people in Páirc Uí Chaoimh think that if Donal Óg is beaten or gotten rid of then everything would be grand, they'll find that if Donal Óg goes there are another 59 players who feel just as strongly."

If the Cork public want to polarise the debate, Seán Óg is clear as to where they should be starting.

"Did you watch Star Wars?" he asks. "This episode is The Empire Strikes Back! If there is a resolution now, something else will flare up next year or the year after until Frank (Murphy, secretary of the county board) wishes to go. I'm not telling Frank to step aside, but I'm saying it would help.

"I'm afraid if we get some resolution here there will be something else next year, and will players be strong enough to go again and stand? Just because Frank did good things in the past doesn't mean we lose the right to argue on other issues or question his future. What is going on here is wrong."

Frank is a question for the longer term. In the interim, the players are willing to shelve the issue till the autumn on two conditions: that the county executive back a recommendation to return to the old selection system, and that the footballers be given a figure to work with whom they can trust.

No one knows quite what it was that inspired Teddy Holland to step into the post when the players were asking that no manager or selectors be appointed before a resolution on the broader issue was reached, but it seems clear Holland 's departure is necessary for any progress to be made.

"They should never have named a football manager. That way it wouldn't become personal. That was important, but they went ahead and named a manager and selectors.

"Nobody disputes Teddy Holland's credentials as a football man. Because of the system, though, and the timing, he is the wrong man. I know six great Cork greats turned it down, just stayed away because the players had asked them to.

"To be honest, Teddy Holland will have to go . . . The county board didn't respect the players' wishes. A deal was brokered with Teddy, I imagine, on the basis that something would be sorted. Naming Teddy broke all trust. There had been no response to the players at all, no dialogue. So before anything happens, the management have to go.

"The proposed system will need to be revisited after the season. I think it is too late now to get into votes and detail. Come back to it when the games are over, have a proper debate when the heat is gone out of it. We would be looking for the promise of county board support at that stage."

So he waits. Sometimes he looks around him and despairs. The best promotion of the GAA in any county is having a senior team doing well. He sees little or no promotion of GAA in Cork compared to Dublin . He sees hurling schools dying on their feet and nothing being done. And he looks at the two county senior teams and sees them being hobbled.

"We'll promote. We are only too willing to go around. For 10 or 12 years I have been - I would say - to every school or club in Cork . Gladly. I'll drive to the farthest corner of west Cork if I have time to get down there. All that goes on top of being a player, and being a player is a job every day of the week. But if you don't have your flagship teams and you are doing nothing else, where is the future of the GAA in Cork ?"

He wonders if "the county board would prefer for us not to compete in All-Ireland finals or semi-finals so long as they had total say? Under this system, the players and the people who follow Cork aren't getting the best people. That's not what the Cork jersey stands for. But the county board are getting their old powers back. There is no point in looking back after five years of failure and saying, ah, the players were right back in 2008."

Tick tick tick. Seán Óg waits. He doesn't see Cork footballers playing Meath next weekend or the hurlers stepping out the weekend after that. He sees a public out of sympathy with their players and a county board who think they have all the chips on the table and the strongest hand in front of them. He wants a solution.

"Don't use us," he says. "Don't sit down just to be seen to be talking to us, don't think that the longer it goes on or the worse we look you have a better chance of persuading the people of Cork that we don't want to tog out. We give our best for the jersey. Always. We want the best put into it and the best to be backing it up."

He sips his water, shakes his head. Second time around doing something he never expected to have to do once. It's the one thing in his hurling career that hasn't gotten easier with practice.

© 2008 The Irish Times

[Blackthorn Man]

The thing is they are not 'on strike' they have just 'withdrawn their services'. The next step is to ask the next best 60 footballers and hurlers to compete for Cork . I asked a mate down in Cork , who would probably be in that next tier whether he would consider it and he told me not in a million years. Imagine the strife that would be created if they did? 60 scabs in a Cork jersey. His words, not mine.



If our best hurlers and footballers withdrew their services I would never take their place even if I was good enough, would you?



Regarding Teddy Holland. As Sean Óg stated in his article, it isn't a personality clash but they want him to step down as manager because the players feel he never should have taken the job under the circumstances. The players publicly requested that nobody would take the manager's position until the selection issue was sorted out. 6 former Cork players were asked to take the job and all declined until Teddy Holland accepted it. So the players feel aggreived that the man who will soon be telling them what to do cannot even respect a simple request. With that uncertainty and aggrivation in the air, all they could do was withdraw their services'.

I do believe this simplifies things. Well done Bally Man and thanks for clarifying why players are little upset. I don't believe there is a power struggle amongst some players in Cork, I believe they are doing this for the betterment of the county and to increase their chances of winning All-Irelands. I am an ex player and I know where they are coming from. Posters that were never involved as a player behind the scenes can only speculate

[Bord na Mona man]

The thing is they are not 'on strike' they have just 'withdrawn their services'. The next step is to ask the next best 60 footballers and hurlers to compete for Cork . I asked a mate down in Cork , who would probably be in that next tier whether he would consider it and he told me not in a million years. Imagine the strife that would be created if they did? 60 scabs in a Cork jersey. His words, not mine.

If our best hurlers and footballers withdrew their services I would never take their place even if I was good enough, would you?

A few of the footballers withdrew their services before the Tommy Murphy Cup vs. Wicklow.
Lads like Jason Kelly who played (and actually tried that night), even though they weren't on the panel are hardly scabs.

[Lone Shark]

I do believe this simplifies things. Well done Bally Man and thanks for clarifying why players are little upset. I don't believe there is a power struggle amongst some players in Cork, I believe they are doing this for the betterment of the county and to increase their chances of winning All-Irelands. I am an ex player and I know where they are coming from. Posters that were never involved as a player behind the scenes can only speculate

Fair enough - but here's the thing though. If all these complaints are not actually about Teddy Holland getting to pick his own selectors, then why is that what we're listening to? If these complaints are legitimate, then they should be aired and the public would weigh in with support. Basically what's happening here is that everyone seems to be acknowledging that this particular line of argument is a trojan horse, but there are widely different opinions about what's going to burst out of the torso when the trapdoor flies open.

I'm not an unreasonable person, nor is 98% of the GAA membership. Blackthorn man, perhaps I and several others are not privy to the same insights that those who have been around a senior county panel are, but we would still happily go along with most reasonable requests - but understandably will raise an eyebrow at this whole notion that "We don't need to tell you what it's really about, you wouldn't understand anyway. We just want to do the best for our county, now run along and don't be worrying your head about it".

This whole situation may have arisen due to Cork county board wanting to get shut of Billy Morgan for their own reasons, but the fact remains it still went through all the necessary democratic channels, and suggestions in the media (unconfirmed mind) that the discussions with Kieran Mulvey fell apart after Donal Óg Cusack demanded a players representative on the County Board and that he be that person don't suggest to me that all the underhand tactics are on one side, or that the county players are quite happy to accept their place as regular GAA members, no more, no less.

[azoffaly]

The thing is they are not 'on strike' they have just 'withdrawn their services'. The next step is to ask the next best 60 footballers and hurlers to compete for Cork . I asked a mate down in Cork , who would probably be in that next tier whether he would consider it and he told me not in a million years. Imagine the strife that would be created if they did? 60 scabs in a Cork jersey. His words, not mine.



If our best hurlers and footballers withdrew their services I would never take their place even if I was good enough, would you?



Regarding Teddy Holland. As Sean Óg stated in his article, it isn't a personality clash but they want him to step down as manager because the players feel he never should have taken the job under the circumstances. The players publicly requested that nobody would take the manager's position until the selection issue was sorted out. 6 former Cork players were asked to take the job and all declined until Teddy Holland accepted it. So the players feel aggreived that the man who will soon be telling them what to do cannot even respect a simple request. With that uncertainty and aggrivation in the air, all they could do was withdraw their services'.

I do believe this simplifies things. Well done Bally Man and thanks for clarifying why players are little upset. I don't believe there is a power struggle amongst some players in Cork, I believe they are doing this for the betterment of the county and to increase their chances of winning All-Irelands. I am an ex player and I know where they are coming from. Posters that were never involved as a player behind the scenes can only speculate

Don't be presumptuous. A few of us here have played a bit too.

[Blackthorn Man]

To azoffaly, I apologise if I offended you. My point was that anyone that hasn't been part of it can only speculate. I've no problem with people speculating but that's just it,speculation. As I've stirred up emotions on another previous issue regarding player protection on this matter it's quiet clear that I am a players man but I would like to make it clear that I am a fair man and look at things from both sides as best I can. Therefore I can only speculate on decisions made by the County Board as I've never been part of one I wouldn't try to comment on something I know nothing about.

All this talk of democracy and democratic decisions just illustrates the politics that is involved from the grassroots up to high level within the GAA and anyone that disagrees has their head buried in the sand too long. For example, 'it's who you are and not what you are' exists in my club and county(Offaly btw) and I can bet my lovely 3 bed bungalow that this goes on in every county.
Times are a changing in Irish society and sport but the old hand of the GAA can't let go and embrace progress. It's difficult for them to acknowledge change and look ahead. Maybe some have had it too good for too long and now feel a little exposed. It's time for player grants and time for players in counties to stand up and say No ,this is wrong and will not work. Finbar Cullen raised an issue in the mid nineties that Offaly footballers were not being treated equally to their hurling counterparts. He was correct in what he was saying and I can guarantee you that the 1997 Leinster winning captain did this for the betterment of Offaly football and not some silly power struggle.
My opinion is that the Cork County Board are wrong to be in a position to appoint selectors and the Cork players are right to withdraw their services because they know it will not work and will not help their cause in achieving All-Ireland success and finally I could'nt give 2 f***s whether they went down the domocratic road or not, this is just a cover your arse excersise.

[DD]

To azoffaly, I apologise if I offended you. My point was that anyone that hasn't been part of it can only speculate. I've no problem with people speculating but that's just it,speculation. As I've stirred up emotions on another previous issue regarding player protection on this matter it's quiet clear that I am a players man but I would like to make it clear that I am a fair man and look at things from both sides as best I can. Therefore I can only speculate on decisions made by the County Board as I've never been part of one I wouldn't try to comment on something I know nothing about.

All this talk of democracy and democratic decisions just illustrates the politics that is involved from the grassroots up to high level within the GAA and anyone that disagrees has their head buried in the sand too long. For example, 'it's who you are and not what you are' exists in my club and county(Offaly btw) and I can bet my lovely 3 bed bungalow that this goes on in every county.
Times are a changing in Irish society and sport but the old hand of the GAA can't let go and embrace progress. It's difficult for them to acknowledge change and look ahead. Maybe some have had it too good for too long and now feel a little exposed. It's time for player grants and time for players in counties to stand up and say No ,this is wrong and will not work. Finbar Cullen raised an issue in the mid nineties that Offaly footballers were not being treated equally to their hurling counterparts. He was correct in what he was saying and I can guarantee you that the 1997 Leinster winning captain did this for the betterment of Offaly football and not some silly power struggle.
My opinion is that the Cork County Board are wrong to be in a position to appoint selectors and the Cork players are right to withdraw their services because they know it will not work and will not help their cause in achieving All-Ireland success and finally I could'nt give 2 f***s whether they went down the domocratic road or not, this is just a cover your arse excersise.

Great post. nft

[Lone Shark]

To azoffaly, I apologise if I offended you. My point was that anyone that hasn't been part of it can only speculate. I've no problem with people speculating but that's just it,speculation. As I've stirred up emotions on another previous issue regarding player protection on this matter it's quiet clear that I am a players man but I would like to make it clear that I am a fair man and look at things from both sides as best I can. Therefore I can only speculate on decisions made by the County Board as I've never been part of one I wouldn't try to comment on something I know nothing about.

All this talk of democracy and democratic decisions just illustrates the politics that is involved from the grassroots up to high level within the GAA and anyone that disagrees has their head buried in the sand too long. For example, 'it's who you are and not what you are' exists in my club and county(Offaly btw) and I can bet my lovely 3 bed bungalow that this goes on in every county.
Times are a changing in Irish society and sport but the old hand of the GAA can't let go and embrace progress. It's difficult for them to acknowledge change and look ahead. Maybe some have had it too good for too long and now feel a little exposed. It's time for player grants and time for players in counties to stand up and say No ,this is wrong and will not work. Finbar Cullen raised an issue in the mid nineties that Offaly footballers were not being treated equally to their hurling counterparts. He was correct in what he was saying and I can guarantee you that the 1997 Leinster winning captain did this for the betterment of Offaly football and not some silly power struggle.
My opinion is that the Cork County Board are wrong to be in a position to appoint selectors and the Cork players are right to withdraw their services because they know it will not work and will not help their cause in achieving All-Ireland success and finally I could'nt give 2 f***s whether they went down the domocratic road or not, this is just a cover your arse excersise.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Winston Churchill.


Blackthorn man, I'm not trying to set myself up in opposition to you here because deep down I've a sneaking suspicion I'd be 80% along the same lines as you - but your post above is utterly short on specifics, which is eventually what it will take to sort this out.

(1) Player grants are a completely separate issue. By all means if you wish to take up the baton for the GPA on that particular case there are a couple of threads on this board where your views would be appropriate and welcome, and I hope if you get time you do just that, because you strike me as both an informed and reasonable individual who could make a much better case for it thatn anyone else I've read so far. However it's nothing to do with this.

(2) Player welfare issues, to cover them all under one big umbrella, are one area where despite what you say, the tide has turned in recent years. Everyone accepts the level of effort that is involved in training to represent your county, and any direct expenses that have been incurred in doing so should be reimbursed, along with decent meals, full and thorough medical cover and if possible at all, a team holiday. This is my belief and is shared by most people. IF Cork, Offaly, or any other county board are falling short in that regard then it should be addressed. If county boad officials stand on the basis of treating players like they did a generation ago, I for one will actuvely oppose the re-election of those officials and most people would do the same. IF THIS IS WHAT THE CURRENT ROW IS ABOUT IN CORK - then the players should say so, detail their complaints and I'd say many other counties would row in in support.

(3) You use words like change and progress with the abandon of another son of Offaly soil, one Mr. Obama of Moneygall descent. Some form of evolution is always necessary - change at gunpoint is not. Once again - the GAA is a big organisation that (I believe anyway) is not all about lifting trophies. If county players want to change things they have to convince the majority of the membership that they are moving things in the right direction - not hold them over a barrel. I keep making the same point over and over - they, just like anyone else, are always free to walk away if the terms do not suit them. Unlike many other officials and grassroots people, there will always be hundreds and thousands queuing up to replace them if they do so. I for one would not see it as a tragedy if several of them decided to. Citius Altius Fortius is the Olympics - not the GAA.

(4) The Cork County board may have changed the rules for all the wrong reasons - however it is incorrect to say that they "know" it won't work. They believe it won't work. That is different. I would agree with them, and if the same thing was happening in Offaly and a county player in my club stood up and asked for members support to oppose this I would happily do so, and use every tool in my arsenal to do it. However if he never asked, if he skipped all the boring stuff like meetings, AGMs, letters to delegates and all that democratic stuff but instead went on strike, I'd be a hell of a lot less inclined to do so. Just because he might be right doesn't mean it was the right way to do things. I think Golden Island is a very handy shopping centre, and I've used it regularly - that doesn't mean that I agree with the circumstances which brought it about.


Blackthorn man, you strike me as too sensible an individual to be suggesting an approach whereby the county players are treated like Gods and all their whims are pandered to. However, and I'm not trying to be condescending, you don't seem to like the current situation either, and it's really not clear what you think is a good alternative. Enlighten me and it's possible that I'll agree with you, but right now I can't.

[azoffaly]

LoneShark,

I was going to type a reply to Blackthorn man, but you have more or less nailed my opinion as well. Including my opinion of Blackthorn man. (You didn't offend me at all, I was just pointing out that there are a few people on here who have and still do in some cases, played to a decent level).

My opinion on this is as I've set out above. I have no doubt that Blackthorn man is very close to the nub of the argument here, and that is that the Cork players *feel* they are being treated badly in a whole host of areas. I was being slightly facetious in saying that they would take the power, but if this 'strike' succeeds, it at the least makes them 'power brokers'.

I do not think the Cork players want to run the county boards, but I do feel that they think the current incumbants are doing a bad job, for whatever reason (including meglomania ) and want rid of them. My objection to them going about it this way is that they are, as LS says, a) blurring the real issues and b) trying to bypass democracy.

I know it's easy to say, and can be very glib sounding, but these things have to be debated and voted on. Enforcing something at virtual gunpoint, even if you believe 100% that it is for the betterment of everyone, is not any way to create a sustainable environment. Simply put, what's to stop anyone striking if they disagree with any decision? Where does it stop? If the players disagree with a new sponsorship deal favouring XYZ instead of O2, is a strike acceptable then?

When does the county board get trusted to do what the county board is elected to do? If they do a bad job, vote them out next time around. If they continue to win these votes and get re-elected, then maybe it's time to look at your own position?

[Blackthorn Man]

Folks, football is a simple game, it's players and officials that complicate it. This is a simple debate, we are just complicating it. I'm sure some of yee watched Prime Time last night about this and after listening to Donal O'Grady and Donal Og Cusack I feel justified in my comments. I listened to comments from the 'opposition' and I'm not convinced. Admittedly I did stray away from the debate a little yesterday which Lone Shark picked up on immediately and I'd rather withdraw them as it only leads to long winded replies about other issues which I'm sure will just bore the reader.
From reading your replies (at 7:30am so I probably should wait until I awake fully) I still feel the pounding of politics. I'm not a politician and never will be and taking on board the fact that there is continuous friction between players and the Cork County Board since 2002 I stand by my belief that the players involved are doing this for the good of Cork GAA and continued success on the field. They are not demanding anything other than a return to the system which was in place after 2002 where an agreement was reached to allow management pick their own selectors. Donal Og said that this was put in place to compete with other successful counties which had taken this onboard and proved relatively successful so why change it and give their opponents the upper hand. Donal O'Grady agrees with this and I would hold his opinion in high regard.
From what I can gather this reversal was done without consultation with the players who instigated the whole process back then so I understand why they feel agrieved and why they requested that no manager take up the position until it was resolved one way or the other. When Tommy Mulholland took up the position he threw a major spanner in the works and his reluctance to stand down until a resolution is sought only hightens the conflict

[azoffaly]

Firstly, please don't cite Donal Óg Cusack at me. I wouldn't believe his radio

As to your post, I think you can't really seperate this from politics though, at least GAA politics.

The county board have a job to do. Whether they do it well or not is a matter of conjecture. They would point to a fairly succesful record in Cork as supporting their point that they are doing alright.

The players would (rightfully) point to the difficulty they had in getting treated like adults before 2002.

Either way, the county board has, as I've said, a job to do, and a mandate to do it. This mandate is reinforced or rejected every time there is a board election, or a vote.

Players who feel unable to operate under conditions where the county board takes decisions for the team should simply walk away, and let it be known why they are walking away. I do not mean strike, I mean retire.

If they feel they can play on, but dislike it, then they should play on, and agitate for change via the proper channels.

Either way, you cannot have a self appointed group vetoing decisions because they feel, rightly or wrongly, that they know better than the county board. That is a recipe for disaster.

In this particular case, I would agree with the players regarding the selectors issue. I too would be a 'players' man when it comes to them being looked after and getting the best possible preparation. However, I think they are going about this all wrong.

Regarding the broader issue of relations down there, I think the players are determined to get Frank Murphy and co out, and this is the battle they've chosen. The innuendos and jibes about Cold Showers, 30 meals for 43 players, Sandwiches, etc etc all point to a larger issue. If that is the case, I think they should get them out into the open as well.