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[TheManFromFerbane]

There seems to me more people caught up in their own self importance rather just the good of the GAA.

Do you not think that this is exactly what the GPA are doing?

[corner back]

Despite being involved in adult teams for 13 years I admit to being naive about payments as i have never got involved in administration.
What would a senior trainer in an Offaly hurling/football club expect to get?
Are these payments dressed up as expenses or is it all under the table?
What about an intercounty trainer?
Are all the trainers paid or is it just outside trainers?
Agree with poster who suggested intercounty players have every right to be angry with the hypocrisy.

[Lone Shark]

I've also signed up the "ofonebelief" campaign, and Séan Boyle Ó'Rathallaigh (welcome back BTW! ) made a very good point, illustrated perfectly by Colm O'Rourke's article in the Indo this weekend, that the media who have a vested interest in pushing this through will be very keen to paint this as the backwoodsmen in Ulster denying progress again. The Ulster counties often seem to me to be the only ones who think that the GAA is about a hell of a lot more than just trying to win championships - understandably enough when you factor in what many of those lads went through purely for being GAA members.

This is a nationwide issue, and we need to show solidarity as club members everywhere that we are not happy with this development at all. Seeing as the next GAA presidential election will be taking place in 2008, I personally believe that there is a real gap in there for a protest candidate if a suitable person was so inclined.

As for a few of the other points on here:

Despite being involved in adult teams for 13 years I admit to being naive about payments as i have never got involved in administration.
What would a senior trainer in an Offaly hurling/football club expect to get?
Are these payments dressed up as expenses or is it all under the table?
What about an intercounty trainer?
Are all the trainers paid or is it just outside trainers?
Agree with poster who suggested intercounty players have every right to be angry with the hypocrisy.

I was discussing with a friend recently who is involved with a junior club in Armagh. They've never won a junior title in their history, so this is as small as a club gets, but they had several lads on the county minor team this year so the club are aware that the coming year or two is when real progress could be made. Some of the "senior" players have decided to issue an ultimatum that if an outside trainer is not brought in, several of them won't play and they reckon that the minors will feck off to Pearse Ógs, Cross or another club who'd be happy to take them in.

Here's the thing though - even the most basic outside trainer wants £10k stg for himself and the same again for support staff. The treasurer of a club that last year had a total budget of £35k has been told to find £20k extra next year in order to pay for this. I don't believe it's anything like this bad down here, but that probably gives some indication.

Here is not the appropriate forum to give details on what specific individual intercounty managers are getting since it is all hearsay, but no doubt several people on here are privy to different numbers. Generally guys managing their own county don't get/look for too much, but the other numbers I know of would range from six figure sums for guys who have previously won All Irelands, to maybe €60k for a guy who has done a few decent intercounty jobs, to €20k for raw lads with no intercounty experience in poor counties. That appears to be the "going rate". Most of these are paid in the form of cash payments from sponsors etc., again in the cases that I know of.

This is without question the biggest weak link in the anti-pay-for-play argument. To my mind the best thing that could happen in the next few weeks would be if a known taker of payment for management, the more high profile the better, was outed by the GAA powers that be and shopped to the revenue commissioners with as much relevant information provided. Word could be put down along the line that this will be happening to all managers that receive dodgy payments from 2008 onwards, while any counties found guilty of knowingly engaging in this practise would have an external auditor appointed by central council and would have to run all expenses by this external appointee.

Why if someone is a willing volunteer would they give it all up because a player gets a grant? I thought they were doing it all along for the love of the games/club/county.

But what if club and county no longer mean what they did before? Even as things stand now, Offaly and Dublin don't compete on an equal footing because they get Arnott's as sponsors while we have Seamus Carroll doing his best (and certainly being very generous bearing in mind all he gets back in comparison - lest that be read as a criticism of one of the county's main benefactors). In a pay for play environment the rich get richer while the poorer counties get either disbanded or amalgamated due to being uneconomic. I love the idea that the Ferbane/Offaly teams of past and present are all players who grew up in the town/county, who love what the area represents as much as I do if not more, and who do it partially for themselves and partially to keep it going and to create a richer legacy fo the next generation. I do not love the idea of an Offaly team full of people who were the best we could get in the transfer market with a limited budget.

...I cannot buy into all this opposition to the players getting compensated by a controlled grant system when there is no resistance shown to paying managers and coaches. We're basically saying it's ok for that to continue but over our dead bodies for a player to get anything out of it. How can that be right?

You are right, we were wrong to let this go, it was a mistake on our part not to stop this. But we can't let previous mistakes change our argument for now.

Proper and full expenses for all, any and all training gear required by the players, meals after sessions, gym membership, any special nutritional supplements, the best medical treatment and full payment on loss of earnings DUE TO INJURY.

These are a lot of benefits and I 100% agree with the players getting them, in fact its a lot of the GAA's own doing that we are in this situation, by not giving these in the past they created an us against them attitude.

But the day you hand over cash, in any shape or form to a player for the PRIVILEGE of representing his county that is the step too far. The players are elite but they are not special. It is our association. All of ours, equally.

This is 98% on the money. I'd be very wary of the whole loss of earnings thing though, it would have to be absolutely watertight. (How do you establish if they can/can't work due to injury? What about two brickies, but one of them is a workaholic who does 30hrs overtime a week and the other does his 40hrs and goes home - do we give them the same compensation, or different? How about students? I appreciate the idea, but ideally it would be worked into the insurance scheme somehow)