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Offalys Future wrote:
Dylan Hayden, Barry Whelehan, Colm Cassidy, stephen browne, niall claffey, mathew mcredmond, mick o hara.
This is just a few of the players that should be involved.

Dylan Hayden doesn't want to play intercounty hurling - he wants a break. Do you suggest he should be brought in at gunpoint? Let him take his time, go to America if he wants, spend his Saturday nights chasing yungwans or whatever he wants to do - when he wants to be selected, that's the tiem for management to consider him - not before.

Barry Whelahan has proven over several years that he does not make an impact at county level. I take no joy in saying this because he's a committed individual and a sound guy (based on the couple of times I met him) but how anyone can argue that he hasn't got enough chances is a mystery to me. The ultimate "good club hurler"

Colm Cassidy has oodles of talent, but he has time and again stopped playing when it looks likely that a hammering is on the cards. He will not step up when someone is needed to dig you out of a hole, and that's true of him at club level too.

For Stephen Browne, read Mickey O'Connell, Redser O'Grady or any of the other cause celebrés across Ireland, players who were wunderkinds at 18 but never advanced. He proves with great regularity at club level of the talent he has - but he has also proved regularly at county level that he is not fit enough, not driven enough and has no interest in getting to that stage. I also reject those who say that it is management's job to keep someone on the straight and narrow - these are grown adults, and if they don't want to do it, treating them like schoolkids is not worth the effort.

Mick O'Hara is a good club hurler, but he's not crafty enough to be a modern intercounty forward and not tight enought to be a modern intercounty back. The only possible role I can see for him is as a late sub when we're holding on to a lead as a defensive half forward. That's very specific to be giving a guy a space on the panel for.

Matthew McRedmond has done nothing at county level, and at club level has not performed to the same standard O'Meara has, a player who you dismiss because the Offaly Championship is not good enough. I've no idea how that makes O'Meara good enough so.

Finally Niall Claffey - I accept that he has a bit more to offer than others on this list, but while he is a good hurler, it's not like he hasn't had chances either. I wouldn't write him off, but neither would I take it as a huge loss seeing that he has had several of his prime years to nail down a place and he never did. I would question whether he's physical enough to play as an intercounty wing back in the modern game, and he certainly is not a corner back - so where do you play him?

Overall I'm afraid you haven't convinced me at all - these guys are not on the panel for valid reasons in every case I'm afraid.

Kinnittyman wrote: Anyways im a bit busy at the mo so cant write any more but needless to say il be there sunday cheering on both teams. UIBH FHAILI ABU!!!!

See you under the Shark so!!

Offalys Future wrote:they would make no difference in the current set up, but any of the players that i have mentioned at their full potentail are better than most players on the present panel at their full potential.

You talk about this "potential" as if it's a guarantee that we would ever see it. It's not fair to compare ourselves in Kilkenny, for several reasons....

(1) A guy who was a great minor in Kilkenny is nobody until he cuts it at senior level - ergo he does not end up with the swelled head that a great minor in Offaly often ends up with.

(2) To motivate yourself to play senior intercounty hurling for Offaly (or Laois or Dublin for that matter) requires a lot more strength of character than it does for Kilkenny. If you grew up in Gowran or Callan and you're a good hurler, you know that you're hardest battle is making the team - once you do that for three years, chances are you'll have won a Celtic Cross, won an All Star, got a rake of free holidays and had the cream of Langtons throwing themselves at you with your reputation counting as foreplay. You get none of that for being an Offaly hurler, so you have to do it for your county, even though you know that you'll probably get nothing but abuse for your troubles. We don't have the "carrot" that they do, so it's nothing but human nature that we have a few more casualties along the way.

(3) Deep down several Offaly hurlers know that at 80% of their potential, they're often still good enough to make the team. With the exception of Henry Shefllin and maybe Tommy Walsh, no Kilkenny player can say that. They have to be at 100%, or they're out. Again, motivation comes so much easier in that environment.


Let me put this to you another way. We all saw Stephen Brown hurling in 2002 and honestly thought that here was a great hurler in the making. He has the potential to win several All Stars. But can you honestly envisage a set of circumstances that would make this come to pass? Because I can't.

no you miss my point and my point is this

that those players have more potential than any of the other players on the offaly panel apart from the ten i mentioned.

Intercounty management is all about man management.
go to Cork and ask them what they think of donal o grad and john allen?
read brin corcorans book.
Go to wexford and ask them what they think of Liam Griffin
Read Liam Dunnes book.
Go to Clare and ask players what they think of ger loughnane as a trainer and person not as a gaa analyst
Go to kilkenny and ask the players what they think of brian cody
Nothig but respect for him.
Go to thurles sarsfield and ask the players what they think of ger cunningham
Go to limerick i.t. and ask the players what they think of davy fitzgerald.

All of the above managers didnt just walk in and get the respect, the earned their respect from the players.
Go to Offaly and ask them what they think of John mcintyre - 80% of the players will tell you he doesnt have a clue, then look at paddy kirwan - who would want to be involved in a setup with him. not too many.

Dylan hayden has trained cnstantly witht the birr under twenty ones over the last three months. he doesnt want to take a break from hurling and if their was a proper seup in Offaly he would be involved as would the rest of the players.

I never once said the guys that i have listed have performed great when playing with offaly but what i did say is that they have the potential to be really good hurlers in a proper setup.

I also reject those who say that it is management's job to keep someone on the straight and narrow - these are grown adults, and if they don't want to do it, treating them like schoolkids is not worth the effort.

Intercounty managers get well looked after in every county now and offaly is no different.
if that much resources are been put into this current manager then he should be doing everything in his power to have the best thirty guys on his panel.
He doesnt have that because he lacks the basic man management skills that is needed even at club level management. that is why offaly is the way it is.

the setup is a shambles, sunday will prove that and then hopefully offaly county board will open their eyes, get he finger out and get rid of the current management team.
Get proper structures into place at underage level and not the joke of a setup that is presently in place.
Will that happen i doubt it very much and thats why we are, where we are.

Tommy walsh, henry shefflin, jj delaney, richie power etc didnt just wake up one morning and become great players.
They attended academys, colleges, underage panels, etc where they were coached properly and correctly.

And you can say offaly have all the above - yes they do but they arent been coached correctly.
There is a school in offaly that a coach gets paid by the local clubs and coaches kids twice a week - this guy is crossed eyed and holds his hurl the wrong way.

There is another school with over one thousand students and a guy training them that doesnt have even a foundation coaching course done.

The games development officer of offaly is employed by the county board to improve hurling at underage level. bit yet he isnt involved with the underage academys because its a complete joke.

That same guy is a fully qualified hurling coach, one of the few in our county but he hasnt been given the job of minor or under twenty one trainer.
He trains his club team instead.
Not by choice, he would love the train one of the above teams but instead the county board appoint guys that gave great service to offaly hurling thirty years ago but have no qualification in coaching a team.
why?

Cassidy and Claffey hurled minor for Offaly back in 1995 and are both around the 30 mark.
At this stage in their careers you have to ask, if they haven't lived up to the potential (that you claim you have), when are they going to do so?
For Offaly seniors both of them have hurled under several managers.
Babs Keating, Michael Bond x2, Pat Fleury, Mike Mac, John McIntyre x2, Fr Tom Fogarty.
Surely one these managers would have unlocked their potential by now.

It's easy to list players and make hypothetical claims about their potential abilities. No one can cite conclusive evidence to prove you wrong. However, I've seen enough of your listed of hurlers to know what our realistic expectations of them should be.

Offalys Future,

Does having those chips on both your shoulders help you to stand up straight?

Will ya relax, will ya.

OffalysFuture,
identifying and slating people like that is very bad form.
While we all have Offaly's best interests at heart, I don't see what good comes out of personal attacks.

Claims like your 80% people of Offaly players say McIntyre hasn't a clue. Unless you've conducted a thorough survey and can stand by your results, then that's the kind stuff for Hogan Stand or a bar stool.

i've no chip on my shoulder..
i am just telling it the way it is.

Its very easy after sunday for people to make judgements but i tell it the way it is now.

You cant get rid of players just for the sake of it and bring in players that havent been coached properly and arent good enough and expect them to perform against the all-ireland hurling champions.

Back in 94 and 98 this was possible because we had exceptional individual hurlers we dont have that now.

Just wait till sunday and when the under twenty ones play kilkenny and all of you will see where offaly hurling is at.

Bord na Mona man wrote:OffalysFuture,
identifying and slating people like that is very bad form.
While we all have Offaly's best interests at heart, I don't see what good comes out of personal attacks.

Claims like your 80% people of Offaly players say McIntyre hasn't a clue. Unless you've conducted a thorough survey and can stand by your results, then that's the kind stuff for Hogan Stand or a bar stool.

i have not made any personal attacks on any person.

Is this forum not where you can air your views on offaly gaa matters,, both positive and negative?

Bord na Mona man wrote:Cassidy and Claffey hurled minor for Offaly back in 1995 and are both around the 30 mark.
At this stage in their careers you have to ask, if they haven't lived up to the potential (that you claim you have), when are they going to do so?
For Offaly seniors both of them have hurled under several managers.
Babs Keating, Michael Bond x2, Pat Fleury, Mike Mac, John McIntyre x2, Fr Tom Fogarty.
Surely one these managers would have unlocked their potential by now.

It's easy to list players and make hypothetical claims about their potential abilities. No one can cite conclusive evidence to prove you wrong. However, I've seen enough of your listed of hurlers to know what our realistic expectations of them should be.

Thats' cos Eamon Cregan set Offaly hurling back by 40 years!!

Sorry LS im a stand man through and through. My 26 year old bones couldnt possibly be expected to stand for 4 hours!!!

Offalys future, why don't you stay at home on Sunday if you have such little faith in our hurling set up. It seems to me that you are just argueing for the sake of argueing. If anybody on this site says black, you would say white just to be different. BORING. BORING. BORING.

i'm just given my opinion and telling you the way it is.
I feel that is where the problem is, people in offaly dont want to change and they dont want to hear from people that we are now a third world county in regards to hurling.

i will travel on sunday like i do for every game.

Then why don't you join our little group on Sunday, we all would love to meet the Victor Meldrew of this site in person.

Offaly's future, I don’t doubt for a minute that you mean well and that you would love to see Offaly hurling back to it’s former glory, just like the rest of us would. I just can’t help but feel that all your solutions are far from practical, and each and every one is predicated on someone outside factor bouncing in our favour, or other people going above and beyond the call of duty, or basically everything requires some extra factor that is unaccounted for.

(1) You say the wrong players are picked, and that you would have other ones there, others who happen to have proven themselves to be unable to compete at the highest level. However this supposedly will work because in this new world these lads will suddenly fulfil this “potential” that they have. In the real world there are always a few players who are unavailable for various reasons and there are always one or two guys who refuse to tow the line. It’s real easy to pick fantasy teams on a site like this because you can ignore all that stuff – McIntyre can’t – he’d be negligent if he did.

(2) You say that county underage teams should have former stars there, stars that the youngsters should identify, but also these guys should have completed all coaching qualifications necessary. Again, we all know that if Brian Whelahan or Hubert Rigney tooke the time out to do these courses (assuming they haven’t already – I don’t know), then made it known to the county board that they were willing to get involved with a county development panel of fifteen year olds and follow them all the way up to minor, the county board would say thank you very much and let them at it. However these guys are now in their thirties, have spent their whole lives involved in hurling and no doubt now want some time to advance their careers, spend time with their young families or just play golf, or whatever, and they are more than entitled to it. There is a finite amount of these players. In other bigger counties there are a lot more. Interestingly in another thread you give out about former players not being involved, yet in this one you suggest the current Games Promotion Officer be given a run – a man who has very little top class playing experience. I’m not saying that he would be a bad choice, I’ve no idea – merely pointing out the inconsistency of your position. Overall though, you’re being very generous with the time and effort of other people in your presumptions.

(3) You say that schools should have full time coaches – this is a wonderful idea, but who pays for it? This kind of job would require a mid range salary and some very chunky expenses to cover the car and mileage to go all across the county for one day a week in all the main schools. Throw in stuff like employers PRSI, pension contribution etc and there isn’t much change from €100k – where is this coming out of?

(4) John McIntyre may not have had the success we’d all have hoped for, but he is a decent guy doing his best, and not shirking responsibility. Again, we are a small county looking to split already meagre resources between two codes. A proven intercounty manager like Donal O’Grady would no doubt be great, but once again, we live in the real world – this costs a bomb. I personally despise the scourge of paid managers and I think it shouldn’t, but it does. Where is this going to come from? I notice that so far you’ve dodged all the questions about how to finance all these things.


Look, nobody here is saying that things are fantastic – however to suggest that we need a top down root and branch overhaul is a little over the top, and even if it wasn’t, we don’t have the wherewithal to execute such a procedure. We have to play the cards we’re dealt, and do our best. I’m not saying there aren’t things I like to change, but I certainly don’t subscribe to the view that those involved aren’t acting in the best interests of Offaly hurling.

Finally, and I mean this sincerely, I do hope we see you beside us on Sunday. We’ll all be shouting on the one side then, that’s for sure.