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Limerick 0-21 Offaly 3-8

Good performance in the first 25 minutes terrible for the rest, to score only 1-1 and the goal was fairly lucky in the second half is terrible , Bakers tactics were shocking in the second half, playing Brian Carroll as a sweeper where he had zero impact just invited Limerick on to us, if he wanted a sweeper in the second half then Ger Healion would have been a better option as he would be more used to playing in that area and he was decent when he came in as a sub, our forwards touch was poor today as well and resulted in the ball being lost far too often.I thought Paul Cleary played well today

DAF wrote:Limerick 0-21 Offaly 3-8

Good performance in the first 25 minutes terrible for the rest, to score only 1-1 and the goal was fairly lucky in the second half is terrible , Bakers tactics were shocking in the second half, playing Brian Carroll as a sweeper where he had zero impact just invited Limerick on to us, if he wanted a sweeper in the second half then Ger Healion would have been a better option as he would be more used to playing in that area and he was decent when he came in as a sub, our forwards touch was poor today as well and resulted in the ball being lost far too often.I thought Paul Cleary played well today

Have to agree with above re Offaly's first touch, we also hit some aimless passes usually to a Limerick player. Limerick scored 0-8 against the breeze in the first half. Offaly struggled to get scores until late in the second period. Ciaran Slevin found the step from club hurling to county level too much.
Another season in 1B for 2014.

Shocking second half display, god help us if Dooley is out we have only one forward
Ollie Baker enough said, as for Ciaran Slevin why put him midfield don't get that
as for Conor Mahon cruel bad i don't think himself or Slevin were right for that game today.

great saves from Dempsey and Kenny and Cleary were great at the back along with Kevin Brady
from there up aside from Dooley weren't at the races and some of the forward play in the second
half was junior F.

Antrim beat Carlow handy today and could well do the same nextweek again us, that would leave us and Carlow in a play off to stay up won't it sad times how much is Baker getting for this shambles

townman wrote:Shocking second half display, god help us if Dooley is out we have only one forward
Ollie Baker enough said, as for Ciaran Slevin why put him midfield don't get that
as for Conor Mahon cruel bad i don't think himself or Slevin were right for that game today.

great saves from Dempsey and Kenny and Cleary were great at the back along with Kevin Brady
from there up aside from Dooley weren't at the races and some of the forward play in the second
half was junior F.

Antrim beat Carlow handy today and could well do the same nextweek again us, that would leave us and Carlow in a play off to stay up won't it sad times how much is Baker getting for this shambles

You mean handy dough! Next Sunday in Belfast looks like being a 4 pointer.

SearingDrive wrote:
Ciaran Slevin found the step from club hurling to county level too much.

Jesus give the man a break. His first start today in midfield which is not his strongest position. It's not as if any of the "county" stars shone today either.

A poor performance all round, 1-1 is an awful return for 40/45 minutes of hurling. We couldn't get the ball past midfield/half forward line in the second half. If their free taker had been more potent, the result would have been a lot more convincing.

SearingDrive wrote:

DAF wrote:Limerick 0-21 Offaly 3-8

Ciaran Slevin found the step from club hurling to county level too much.
Another season in 1B for 2014.

that's rubbish.
If you going to bring in a player, playing him in the correct position. Baker should have played him no.10.
He did well in midfield, he fought for every ball and anything he get he use well. better than most palyer. if the rest of the team work as hard as he did we would have won. he was up aginist 2 midfielder as Carroll was wandering and wasn't fight for any ball. Its a week after an all ireland club final as well and he and the other KK players should not have being ask to play today.
What happen to Bergin and Molloy
For the first 20 mins we let the ball do the work. after that the backs passed instead for letting the ball in fast.
we should have being another 5 or 6 up at half time. bad control, bad use of the ball let us down . Tom Carroll work his socks off on a different day he could have being the difference.
the backs just tried to walk the ball out of defence in the second half,
i hope to god i don't ever see Offaly play a two man full forward line, Its a great tatics when its use well. But we don't have a fecking clue how to use it.

Demspey and Kenny were great today. What was Egan sent off for?? a midfielder has to win aleast 50% of the battle on the ground. Selvin won around that.
B. Carroll won about 0%. i thing is for sure he not a midfielder.

Antrim could well beat us next sunday and then we be in a regulation battle aginist Carlow.

Baker has to go.
the players have to deside if they want to win as a team or lose as individual.
If you don't work for your team mate them you don't get to play.
Back to basic. let the ball do the work.

Well that was some mess of a second half. Ollie Baker and his side line crew spent the whole half abusing the ref and the lines man, all they had to do was play man on man dont think they know what goes on around them.WE all know u must respect the ref and if manganment cant control themselves then players have no one to look to for guidance, then u get ur red cards. Our u21 championship next week and no hurling for them young lads on the bench must be hard to miss out on games running up and down the sideline warming up but no game time. I think players on the fringes should be allowed play with their clubs thats a big problem in offaly hurling.Oconnor park has some echo and after today im afraid there has to be changes

That was pathetic today. It's not the losing, it's the manner of the performance.

Being 'outpointed' 7 to 8 at half-time, given the wind factor, is shocking. Limerick did more of the hurling than Offaly in the first half too I texted a few friends at half-time opining that it was possible Offaly would not score in the second-half and that limerick would win comfortably even without scoring goals. Cripes, I was nearly right on the former.

Surely it would be worked out beforehand who takes frees awarded at particular locations. The first free-out Offaly were awarded saw both Slevin and another (possibly Morkan?) move towards the ball. Eventually it was Cleary who took the free. Cleary wasn't far off with a free from his own '45, yet the next time Offaly were awarded a free in that sector, Dooley made the long trek to take it. How much time was wasted with that last '65 as Dooley and Morkan debated who should strike the ball. With a goal needed, surely Dooley was of more use closer to goal. Like, if Johnny Dooley took that long free against Wexford in 1998 Offaly might never have won the All-Ireland three months later.

The Dooley 'episode' where he hit away the ball as the Limerick player prepared to line up a free left a sour taste. How Kelly decided to throw the ball in rather than move the free forward (as he should correctly have done) is anyone's guess.

Kevin Brady got away with some amount of fouling under the dropping ball early on. He settled down to hurl decently well. In general though, most Offaly players did make big efforts to tackle correctly.

Showboating. 'Nuff said.

The first man taken off was a corner-forward. That despite no ball going in. In fairness, like?

The Kilcormac lads should have been excused for the remainder of the League. They will need time to come down from what was an acute disappointment before building back up again. Fair play to them for turning out, and time will heal the wounds, but today was not the day for them to make a return.

On a seperate issue, Ger Healion is not a center half-back. I hope siting Ger at 6 is not an idea in Ollie Baker's brain.

I know the day was bitterly cold (the guage read 2.5 degrees as I stepped out of the car in Tullamore at 1.45pm) and it was not a day for catching the ball, but Offaly made too many poor attempts at controlling the dropping ball with one limp hand on the hurl.

By my calculations, Offaly's points difference is 12 points superior to Antrim's (-1 v -13). A seven point win for Antrim will save the Northerners' Div 1 status and leave Offaly hoping Wexford suffer at Limerick's hands. Limerick are already qualified for the Final so a big win there is not inevitable. Easter Sunday will be a day for the calculator.

Plain of the Herbs wrote:That was pathetic today. It's not the losing, it's the manner of the performance.

got in late today and missed the first few scores but saw Dooley rattle that pnalty which was a nice tonic....... agree, the last 45 was pretty poor but the 1st 25 was very encouraging and the last ten mins wasnt too bad....

Being 'outpointed' 7 to 8 at half-time, given the wind factor, is shocking. Limerick did more of the hurling than Offaly in the first half too I texted a few friends at half-time opining that it was possible Offaly would not score in the second-half and that limerick would win comfortably even without scoring goals. Cripes, I was nearly right on the former.

Limerick seemed to be better at moving the ball against the wind and created more scores. The simple reality is that Offaly only really have two scoring forwards (Bergin and Dooley) and when they are not on the ball or on the field we struggle. We have a few hard workers on the team in the forwards but they wouldnt exactly be scorers and we have struggled to score as a result. Limerick on the other hand today had Downes Mulcahy, inside Breen, Hannon Allis and one worker in Hickey at centre forward. Their scores can come from a few places and as such found scores easier to come by than us.....

Surely it would be worked out beforehand who takes frees awarded at particular locations. The first free-out Offaly were awarded saw both Slevin and another (possibly Morkan?) move towards the ball. Eventually it was Cleary who took the free. Cleary wasn't far off with a free from his own '45, yet the next time Offaly were awarded a free in that sector, Dooley made the long trek to take it. How much time was wasted with that last '65 as Dooley and Morkan debated who should strike the ball. With a goal needed, surely Dooley was of more use closer to goal. Like, if Johnny Dooley took that long free against Wexford in 1998 Offaly might never have won the All-Ireland three months later.

In fairness, i think anything within his range Dooley as designated free taker should take....

The Dooley 'episode' where he hit away the ball as the Limerick player prepared to line up a free left a sour taste. How Kelly decided to throw the ball in rather than move the free forward (as he should correctly have done) is anyone's guess.

From what i saw, the limerick player stole about 15 yds in taking the free and Dooley was just moving the ball back to where it should have been taken from (to where the linesman was pointing) when he got a tip of a limerick hurl. this is why a throw in was given......

Kevin Brady got away with some amount of fouling under the dropping ball early on. He settled down to hurl decently well. In general though, most Offaly players did make big efforts to tackle correctly.

Agree, though i did think Brady had another decent outing for Offaly today, even though we could have done with his bite around midfield in second half....Tackling was decent enough and good pressure put on especially in first 25 mins.....

Showboating. 'Nuff said.

?????

The first man taken off was a corner-forward. That despite no ball going in. In fairness, like?

Thought Parlon was a bit out of sorts today in fairness and was like a fish out of water in full forward line...Think he works best in half forward line where he can get running at defences more and use his pace...

The Kilcormac lads should have been excused for the remainder of the League. They will need time to come down from what was an acute disappointment before building back up again. Fair play to them for turning out, and time will heal the wounds, but today was not the day for them to make a return.

Fair comment, but if they were left off and we lost by the same margin, we'd have people on here saying they should have played and if they had, that we'd have won...This was a massive game today and i think we were right to go out with what was perceived to be our strongest 15. Thought Slevin was mediocre today, but wouldnt have the fitness of a intercounty midfielder today. His man ran riot in 2nd half, but he would be more natural at 10 or 12....Mahon tried hard as he always does and Healion did well enough when he came in.....Currams hopefully will be back in time for championship.......

On a seperate issue, Ger Healion is not a center half-back. I hope siting Ger at 6 is not an idea in Ollie Baker's brain.

I know the day was bitterly cold (the guage read 2.5 degrees as I stepped out of the car in Tullamore at 1.45pm) and it was not a day for catching the ball, but Offaly made too many poor attempts at controlling the dropping ball with one limp hand on the hurl.

I wonder does the cold explain why the Limerick fans outnumbered us by at least 2 to 1. I was sat in the stand and every time they scored their was a massive roar while when Dooley scored a great point in 1st half to put us seven or eight up, there was barely a whimper.....

By my calculations, Offaly's points difference is 12 points superior to Antrim's (-1 v -13). A seven point win for Antrim will save the Northerners' Div 1 status and leave Offaly hoping Wexford suffer at Limerick's hands. Limerick are already qualified for the Final so a big win there is not inevitable. Easter Sunday will be a day for the calculator.

yea it looks like anything worse than -5 in antrim will see us in a final v carlow unless wexford lose by greater than 9 points to Limerick which is very unlikely....I guess really and truely, this is our level, and we'd be naive thinking we are good enough at the moment to go up and play in div 1 A.....Format might be changed anyway if KK are relegated or other big name team and possibly revert to top 8 div 1 in which case both Dublin and Limerick would go up.......
Why was Egan sent off, didnt see incident and was it a straight red or 2 yellows????

Still some positives if only a few from today.
Thought goalie and full back line (especially Kenny) looked good and solid throughout and worked well in keeping LK at bay, as most of their scores came from further out.... In fact we have only conceded 2 goals in 4 matches games to date which is quite impressive.....If we can get a few more scorers and scores then we should be ok
Thought Tom Carroll was excellent in 1st half and his man was pulled before half time. went out of it in second half but then so did everybody else.
Shane Dooley seemed to be getting a little closer to his old self and looked threatening at times....

Unfortunately though, the 2nd half was shocking poor especially from midfield and half forward line and this needs to improve drastically if we are to keep it pucked out to KK in little over 2 months time.....

if we improve or not we still won't keep it pucked out to kilkenny, was watching them hurl clare
when i got home wasn't a great game, but that team kilkenny, even without the 7 or 8 they are missing
would beat offaly no problem, division 1 B is our level and if we don't pull up the socks and other defeat
next sunday could see us playing just to stay in it never mind get out of.

Poor on and off the field. Seems like a lot of people have made there minds up that Baker is taking this team nowhere, and they are staying away in droves. The support for the hurlers seems to be dropping off big time.
I honestly thought some of the changes to the team would lead to a result yesterday, but agree that to play the KK players was a risk. Only Baker knows what the players atitudes were like. Not sure but the norm after a gut wrenching defeat like that would be a few pints over a couple of days, and little apetite for battle for a couple of weeks. However these are lads with plenty to prove at county level and maybe had the desire to come in given the chance in a big game and stake a claim. That aside, after 12 mins we were outscored by 20pts to 1-05!! failure to build on a great start was extremely disappointing.

we have a real problem with effective midfield play that closes down the opposition and putting decent ball into the forwards.
We might not have the best players, but we are definitely suffering tactically.

I have to say I was worried at half time, but I still didn't expect the extent of the collapse we saw in the second half. Particularly when Limerick started shooting wides early in the second half, we were being left in a game when we deserved to be blown out of the water - similarly when Colin Egan got the goal, suddenly we were a point up and the opportunity was there to really frighten Limerick and make them nervous - sadly we didn't have a player capable of putting his hand up and creating a score.

I would exempt David Kenny and James Dempsey from criticism yesterday - I thought they were both excellent, and the damage would have been much more severe if they hadn't been as good as they were. By my notes Kenny was only whistled for one dubious foul and he held Hannon scoreless from play. That's a pretty outstanding day's work and while there are those who'd like to see him at centre back, I'd be slow to change around something that's working as well as that.

After that, it's hard to pick out bright spots. We were overwhelmed at midfield, our half forward line won little or no clean ball and struggled to even spoil it a lot of the time, our inside forwards were dependent on the Limerick backs making mistakes to create anything and tactically we were outclassed. Limerick created plenty of clear scoring chances into the wind by good and selective use of support running and handpassing through the middle of the field, we never really tried to do this from what I can tell - we just hit blind long balls out of defence to outnumbered forwards who had little or no chance of winning high and hopeful dropping balls.

I'd also echo POTH's point regarding the freetaking, and the uncertainty regarding who was supposed to take them from where. Other stuff I'd have noted:

(1) Against Wexford I thought Kevin Brady's best work was done at midfield. The modern hurling midfielder has become something of a number 7 in rugby - a forager who works hard to get into the rucks and to come out with the ball. Nice sharp wrists are great but somewhat redundant if you don't get the ball in hand. Brady did this job well against Wexford and while he does get hooked a bit more than I'd like, that's not as fatal at midfield as it is in the back line. Surely he'd have been a better midfield option than either Carroll or Slevin, who might be good scorers but who aren't in their element in the trenches to the same degree as Brady.

(2) When you look back on the scores we got, on another day it could have been horrendous. The penalty call looked harsh to me, while nine times out of ten, Shane Dooley's second goal wouldn't have happened - Richie McCarthy would have gathered the ball at the first attempt and cleared it. I know a big part of hurling is capitalising on mistakes and being there to take advantage so I'm not saying this as a criticism of Shane - I'm saying it because I wouldn't count it as a score we created, merely one where Limerick left the door open and we took the chance. Look at some of the other points we got - Shane hit one from play out on the sideline in the first half, as did Brian Carroll. Our only second half point was from under the touchline as well. These are great scores to get and well done to the two lads for hitting them, but that's not what you'd call good percentage hurling.

(3) When you see what Antrim were able to do to Carlow and how Dublin absolutely blew Wexford away, the value of our last two wins were not boosted yesterday. Casement Park next week could tell a lot.

Ahlethimoutwithit wrote:Poor on and off the field. Seems like a lot of people have made there minds up that Baker is taking this team nowhere

Its true. But not just Baker. Corrigan and Stephen Byrne have to take the blame as well.
They are from the county and they should be in Baker ear telling him this is not the way Offaly play Hurling.
They should be in his ear tell him our midfield is be over ran. They should be tell him that our two man forward line is behind there men.

The lack of fire and passion in the squad shows that they something wrong in the squad. The lack of talking and shouting on the field shows that players are not sure what they doing.

Club teams in the county hurl with a better plan and idea than the county team. The Coolderry team for two years ago, The Kilcormac-Killoughey, St. Rynagh and Birr from last year club championship would all have beating The Offaly county team yesterday and they would have hammered us last week.
They all have an idea of what they would need to do. Offaly county don't.

The Funny thing is Limerick were not good yesterday, They were there for the taking. there Full back line is somewhere between poor and ok. and we score 1-2 in the second half aginist that. If Ger Helion, David Kenny, or Paul Cleary were Full back for Limerick yesterday. they would have not let in 3 goals. Hannon Missed about 6 frees. what if Dowling had played. we would have embarrassed by even more.

I don't like see up lose but i can take it if we are playing our own brand of hurling. Yesterday i saw us trying to play a unworkable version of munster hurling.
Antrim are going to eat us alive if we don't get it together.

Lone Shark wrote:
(1) Against Wexford I thought Kevin Brady's best work was done at midfield. The modern hurling midfielder has become something of a number 7 in rugby - a forager who works hard to get into the rucks and to come out with the ball. Nice sharp wrists are great but somewhat redundant if you don't get the ball in hand. Brady did this job well against Wexford and while he does get hooked a bit more than I'd like, that's not as fatal at midfield as it is in the back line. Surely he'd have been a better midfield option than either Carroll or Slevin, who might be good scorers but who aren't in their element in the trenches to the same degree as Brady.

Your spot on about a midfielder being a number 7 in rugby. There job is to get there hands on the ball and supply Fast, good and smart ball to everyone else. there the guy that put there body on the line to slow, turnover or win the ball. Slevin should have played at No. 10. its was unfair to ask him to step into a new position on his frist day out with the county. His natural game is to drop into midfield and give a hand anyhow. which would have taking the pressure off whoever was in there.

We have 4 players that have the ablity to play in midfield in county to a high level. Hanniffy who is our most complete player, Sean Ryan who will get stuck in but doesn't always use the ball a well as he could. Brady who must feel like a wandering saleman, if they a problem he get put there. Centre Back, Midfield and wing back this year so far. Kilmartin a big raw talent.
Is there anyone else. i can't think of anyone. Dylan Hayden in Birr i alway thought midfield was his best position. Tom Carroll in a few years time if he keep working hard will be another one that could be a good midfielder. he has being getting stuck in a lot more this year and if he keep improving that side of his game.

Lone Shark wrote: (2) When you look back on the scores we got, on another day it could have been horrendous. The penalty call looked harsh to me, while nine times out of ten, Shane Dooley's second goal wouldn't have happened - Richie McCarthy would have gathered the ball at the first attempt and cleared it. I know a big part of hurling is capitalising on mistakes and being there to take advantage so I'm not saying this as a criticism of Shane - I'm saying it because I wouldn't count it as a score we created, merely one where Limerick left the door open and we took the chance. Look at some of the other points we got - Shane hit one from play out on the sideline in the first half, as did Brian Carroll. Our only second half point was from under the touchline as well. These are great scores to get and well done to the two lads for hitting them, but that's not what you'd call good percentage hurling.

The other side of this was our forwards trying to take on they men and not leaving off the ball to player in better positions.
they never look across the field. the only time they did this was when Parlon sent a pass about 4 foot over Slevin head in the middle of the frist half. It was a bad pass but at least he saw the pass. The Offaly forwards had the blinkers on yesterday.
we are not doing the simple thing well.

Lone Shark wrote: (3) When you see what Antrim were able to do to Carlow and how Dublin absolutely blew Wexford away, the value of our last two wins were not boosted yesterday. Casement Park next week could tell a lot

Sometime losing has value as well but we don't look like we learning for any game.


I still haven't hear where was Bergin and Molloy yesteday.
Are they injured and if so how bad???
they are some of your best go to players.

I know this wont go down to well but for me Baker has to go. He shouldnt have got the job in the first place, get someone in now and let them prepare for next year because we can write this year off straight away. There is no bond between the players , heading to Antrim next week end fighting for our divison 1b status. Unless we get a manager with experience we will struggle, we have had Coolderry,k/k in All Ireland finals in the last two years and in my mind we have a strong club championship so we should have a good spread of players to work with. We will be lucky to stay in divison 1b over the next few years if we dont cop on now.