Gutted after the weekend. Three big games and three losses. I really don't know which of the senior ones is the worst, Div 4 football or Div 2 hurling. The U21's did well and at the start of the year I'd have been delighted with a Leinster final appearance. Fair play to them they never gave up after a first half that look like they were in trouble
Senior Footballers - From a Leinster final last summer to Div 4 football. We're not that bad but this will put back a long way over the next few years. People might say that we're too good to be playing in Div 4 but the only teams that we beat are below us. The Longford thing was a screw up but I really think that the loss against Leitrim killed us. Looking at some of the teams in Div 2 make me sick to see us in Div 4.
Senior Hurling - The most disappointing all weekend. For this team that has shown so much heart and hard work to get the drop is wrong. They picked the worst game to play poor in. All the other league games they were there or there abouts, now the drop. Sickening. To try get back up will not be easy either if it's the same format next year. Just when we started to get the train on tracks this will put the team back a long way.
Gut wrenching weekend.
Black Weekend
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Muck Savage
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Bord na Mona man
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Never did I think we would lose all 3 big games this weekend.
Though Offaly fans should have learned long ago to expect these things as a matter of course.
I wonder though, how much difference does Division 2 hurling really make though? I'm certainly not saying it's a good thing, but I suspect Offaly still would have gotten torched by Kilkenny in 2005 even if we had played in Div 1 that year. Last year having played Division 1, Offaly were still not much better off. I think we have to accept that certain teams are well capable of really punishing us on a given day, once the games are played at championship intensity,
At half time today Offaly seemed in a good enough position. Having played against the wind there was only 4 points in it. Playing into the 2nd half breeze, Limerick shots that would have gone wide or over the bar, were dropping around the Offaly square and resulting in goals.
Maybe the full back line can be patched up for championship this year, but I think Offaly are going to struggle for a while yet.
However I'd persist (not that there's a choice) with the current bunch and see what can be done with them over 2 or 3 years. The spirit and attitude looks a bit better.
My worries are Shane O'Connor under the dropping ball-you realise what an under-rated keeper McGarry is, for his mastery of this.
Also Paul Cleary might have his confidence rattled by today, Franks at corner back looked flakey too. With Joe Bergin was carrying an injury and there wasn't many others taking up the slack.
Perhaps it was just a bad day, but it is worrying that our bad days all seem to happen in important games!
The effort from the footballers was commendable. I wonder if Michael Collins hadn't given two dodgy decisions that resulted in the first 2 Roscommon goals, would we be in the play off for Division 2?
Unfortunately as the game went on there were times when Offaly players were trying to hard and made errors. A lot of Roscommon scores came from Offaly mistakes, most of the Offaly scores came from great football.
Sometimes too many Offaly men were being drawn towards the man in possession, such was desire to tackled and harass, resulting in other Roscommon players being unmarked and then getting in for a easy score.
Given that Offaly are usually rubbish in the qualifers anyway, maybe having no trap door will be a good thing against Dublin/Kildare/Meath this year. Just a thought! It is very humiliating to be competing in the Tommy Murphy. I can't imagine a delirious pitch invasion if Offaly win it.
The U21s gave a good show against a better team. In the first half Leix created far more chances, but luckily missed most of them.
Offaly's biggest failing was the delivery into the forwards, where balls were hopeful 50/50 at best and too often the full forwards didn't manage to break away from their markers to offer options.
In the second half this improved when players like Sean Ryan and Thomas Coughlan carried the ball forward and Ken Casey started coming out more to collect possession. Having being outplayed for most of the day. Offaly almost drew level with around 10 minutes left. However Leix held on and Offaly didn't manage to rob them.
Though Offaly fans should have learned long ago to expect these things as a matter of course.
I wonder though, how much difference does Division 2 hurling really make though? I'm certainly not saying it's a good thing, but I suspect Offaly still would have gotten torched by Kilkenny in 2005 even if we had played in Div 1 that year. Last year having played Division 1, Offaly were still not much better off. I think we have to accept that certain teams are well capable of really punishing us on a given day, once the games are played at championship intensity,
At half time today Offaly seemed in a good enough position. Having played against the wind there was only 4 points in it. Playing into the 2nd half breeze, Limerick shots that would have gone wide or over the bar, were dropping around the Offaly square and resulting in goals.
Maybe the full back line can be patched up for championship this year, but I think Offaly are going to struggle for a while yet.
However I'd persist (not that there's a choice) with the current bunch and see what can be done with them over 2 or 3 years. The spirit and attitude looks a bit better.
My worries are Shane O'Connor under the dropping ball-you realise what an under-rated keeper McGarry is, for his mastery of this.
Also Paul Cleary might have his confidence rattled by today, Franks at corner back looked flakey too. With Joe Bergin was carrying an injury and there wasn't many others taking up the slack.
Perhaps it was just a bad day, but it is worrying that our bad days all seem to happen in important games!
The effort from the footballers was commendable. I wonder if Michael Collins hadn't given two dodgy decisions that resulted in the first 2 Roscommon goals, would we be in the play off for Division 2?
Unfortunately as the game went on there were times when Offaly players were trying to hard and made errors. A lot of Roscommon scores came from Offaly mistakes, most of the Offaly scores came from great football.
Sometimes too many Offaly men were being drawn towards the man in possession, such was desire to tackled and harass, resulting in other Roscommon players being unmarked and then getting in for a easy score.
Given that Offaly are usually rubbish in the qualifers anyway, maybe having no trap door will be a good thing against Dublin/Kildare/Meath this year. Just a thought! It is very humiliating to be competing in the Tommy Murphy. I can't imagine a delirious pitch invasion if Offaly win it.
The U21s gave a good show against a better team. In the first half Leix created far more chances, but luckily missed most of them.
Offaly's biggest failing was the delivery into the forwards, where balls were hopeful 50/50 at best and too often the full forwards didn't manage to break away from their markers to offer options.
In the second half this improved when players like Sean Ryan and Thomas Coughlan carried the ball forward and Ken Casey started coming out more to collect possession. Having being outplayed for most of the day. Offaly almost drew level with around 10 minutes left. However Leix held on and Offaly didn't manage to rob them.
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Mighty Pair O' Hands
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The senior footballers did actually play well going forward but it is heartbreaking to see the same mistakes/problems every game; ie
freetaking 2 25 yard frees missed by Niall - not his fault as he is not a free taker (one of them missed when Ken Casey was on the pitch so no excuses)
fitness Most notable in the U21 game when Laois totally outran us. Was a problem all last year with the seniors when we either just managed to stay ahead of teams after a good start (Wmeath/kildare/wexford) or really struggled to compete second half (dublin/laois).
discipline How many times did the ref throw the ball in yesterday because an offaly player retaliated after winning a free ? I counted at least 4......
midfield totally outclassed in both games for long periods. we should be looking for alternative ways of winning possession - short kickouts, isolate height advantage (Ciaran Mac was way taller than the half back and not one kick out went his way), picking up breaks etc...
centreback problem last year and still remains one. Sullivan was more assured in the fullback line and maybe should be moved back there. We have conceded 10 goals in the league mostly due to simple mistakes.
On the positive note, Pascal had a great game centre forward and used the ball well. James Coghlan kicked 3 great scores and was very unlucky to be taken off.
freetaking 2 25 yard frees missed by Niall - not his fault as he is not a free taker (one of them missed when Ken Casey was on the pitch so no excuses)
fitness Most notable in the U21 game when Laois totally outran us. Was a problem all last year with the seniors when we either just managed to stay ahead of teams after a good start (Wmeath/kildare/wexford) or really struggled to compete second half (dublin/laois).
discipline How many times did the ref throw the ball in yesterday because an offaly player retaliated after winning a free ? I counted at least 4......
midfield totally outclassed in both games for long periods. we should be looking for alternative ways of winning possession - short kickouts, isolate height advantage (Ciaran Mac was way taller than the half back and not one kick out went his way), picking up breaks etc...
centreback problem last year and still remains one. Sullivan was more assured in the fullback line and maybe should be moved back there. We have conceded 10 goals in the league mostly due to simple mistakes.
On the positive note, Pascal had a great game centre forward and used the ball well. James Coghlan kicked 3 great scores and was very unlucky to be taken off.
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Bord na Mona man
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Maybe it's not purely a fitness issue. I think Offaly are a team who throw everything they have at the opposition early on and then tire out by the end. If I was an opposition manager I would tell the players to expect an early Offaly onslaught and to bide their time until they get a run on Offaly later on the game.
It was silly to have frees overturned, but this is down to Offaly being overly fired up and of course a very fussy referee who tends to infuriate players rather than calm them. Yesterday, Scott Brady improved matters at midfield. He competed well for the ball.
Pascal also did well, using the ball when he had it and tackling back and dispossessing without fouling.
At this stage, the forward line looks settled. The backline still has problems and the easy scores conceded to Roscommon undid some of Offaly's great attacking play. I would put James Keane at centre back, because Scott Brady is needed at midfield.
Maybe Shane Sullivan could return to the corner back position? Sean Casey or Barry Mooney haven't featured, so I can only assume they aren't seen as viable corner back options? Nigel Grennan hasn't been on form this year and I saw Pat Roe was livid with him over a couple of frees he gave away.
It was silly to have frees overturned, but this is down to Offaly being overly fired up and of course a very fussy referee who tends to infuriate players rather than calm them. Yesterday, Scott Brady improved matters at midfield. He competed well for the ball.
Pascal also did well, using the ball when he had it and tackling back and dispossessing without fouling.
At this stage, the forward line looks settled. The backline still has problems and the easy scores conceded to Roscommon undid some of Offaly's great attacking play. I would put James Keane at centre back, because Scott Brady is needed at midfield.
Maybe Shane Sullivan could return to the corner back position? Sean Casey or Barry Mooney haven't featured, so I can only assume they aren't seen as viable corner back options? Nigel Grennan hasn't been on form this year and I saw Pat Roe was livid with him over a couple of frees he gave away.
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the bare biffo
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I would agree that the footballers played well going forward, unfortunately defending is also critical. Karol Slattery typified Offaly's problems yesterday. As always he looked classy on the ball and had great first half run where he should have goaled rather than take his point.
However he also went awol for two of Roscommons second half goals.
It seems everyone bar Pat Roe felt Shane Sullivan was not playing well at CHB for the entire league, yesterday he was again poor and was directly at fault for another Roscommon second half goal, giving away posession close to his own goal. So after 7 league outings the team goes into the championship with no CHB (among other things)
I was glad to see Conor Evans back in the fold. Too much to expect him to come back and solve problems at this stage, but if himself and Barry Mooney were anywhere near the form of two years ago they would add some much needed steel to this defence.
Just to complete the litany of half back frailty, in the first half Aidan keenaghan thought he could waltz his way into the Roscommon goal only to lose posession and see the ball transferred rapidly down his own wing and int the Offaly net. At least he can cite inexperience as an excuse.
Joe Quinn looks a good footballer but was muscled out of it by the Ros full forward, but in fairness this was true of most positions.
Free taking has been done to death at this stage. Has anyone here attended any training sessions ? do they practice free taking ? Maybe Tony McTeague or Matt Connor should be brought in to work with someone on freetaking. It doesn't make sense that Niall can kick points with his eyes closed from play and then miss easy frees.
Has Ciaran Mac got an ongoing groin problem ? He never kicked a free yeasterday and his performance was very muted. He was never a particulary good fielder, but his work rate has been the driving force for Offaly over the last 5 years or more without that the team is much diminished.
However you judge it this league has been very poor campaign, wins against London, Carlow and Clare just are not good enough and the taem appears to have been hindered by management in terms of selection, tactics and physical preparation rather than helped. I hope those who called for Kevin Kilmurrays head are happy with what they have got in it's place. For all his faults I am pretty sure we would not be where we are this morning if he had still been in charge.
The only mitigating factor in Roes favour I think is that two players who have beed top class for Offaly over the last few years, McManus and Slattery appear to be on the wane. It seems there just aren't players there to step into the boots of lads like Cullen, Kenny, Daly, Coffey, Quinn and the Grennans.
Last year we managed to beat Westmeath, Wexford and Kildare en route to the Leinster final. At this stage I would not be expecting this team to beat anyone in Leinster other than Carlow and Wicklow.
As for the hurlers, I posted some time back that I thought we had slipped to number 4 in Leinster and in fact have reverted to where we were pre 1980, always having a few top class players but not enough to compete with the top counties. If it was needed I think yesterday confirmed that status.
However he also went awol for two of Roscommons second half goals.
It seems everyone bar Pat Roe felt Shane Sullivan was not playing well at CHB for the entire league, yesterday he was again poor and was directly at fault for another Roscommon second half goal, giving away posession close to his own goal. So after 7 league outings the team goes into the championship with no CHB (among other things)
I was glad to see Conor Evans back in the fold. Too much to expect him to come back and solve problems at this stage, but if himself and Barry Mooney were anywhere near the form of two years ago they would add some much needed steel to this defence.
Just to complete the litany of half back frailty, in the first half Aidan keenaghan thought he could waltz his way into the Roscommon goal only to lose posession and see the ball transferred rapidly down his own wing and int the Offaly net. At least he can cite inexperience as an excuse.
Joe Quinn looks a good footballer but was muscled out of it by the Ros full forward, but in fairness this was true of most positions.
Free taking has been done to death at this stage. Has anyone here attended any training sessions ? do they practice free taking ? Maybe Tony McTeague or Matt Connor should be brought in to work with someone on freetaking. It doesn't make sense that Niall can kick points with his eyes closed from play and then miss easy frees.
Has Ciaran Mac got an ongoing groin problem ? He never kicked a free yeasterday and his performance was very muted. He was never a particulary good fielder, but his work rate has been the driving force for Offaly over the last 5 years or more without that the team is much diminished.
However you judge it this league has been very poor campaign, wins against London, Carlow and Clare just are not good enough and the taem appears to have been hindered by management in terms of selection, tactics and physical preparation rather than helped. I hope those who called for Kevin Kilmurrays head are happy with what they have got in it's place. For all his faults I am pretty sure we would not be where we are this morning if he had still been in charge.
The only mitigating factor in Roes favour I think is that two players who have beed top class for Offaly over the last few years, McManus and Slattery appear to be on the wane. It seems there just aren't players there to step into the boots of lads like Cullen, Kenny, Daly, Coffey, Quinn and the Grennans.
Last year we managed to beat Westmeath, Wexford and Kildare en route to the Leinster final. At this stage I would not be expecting this team to beat anyone in Leinster other than Carlow and Wicklow.
As for the hurlers, I posted some time back that I thought we had slipped to number 4 in Leinster and in fact have reverted to where we were pre 1980, always having a few top class players but not enough to compete with the top counties. If it was needed I think yesterday confirmed that status.
"The ball may pass, but the man, never."
goalkeeper
not blaming kelly but as for some of the goals he hadnt much defence in front of him,but... he`s line in cioming out to the forwards looked totally off,he was covering either side of the right post.
forwards werent bad j coughlan was good but him and deehan will not win any hard possesion.
slattss sullivan and rafferty werent up to much either.
forwards werent bad j coughlan was good but him and deehan will not win any hard possesion.
slattss sullivan and rafferty werent up to much either.
Anguish
I came on looking for a thread entitled "Wallowing in self-pity" but most of you guys have managed to find some positives from a very disappointing weekend for the Faithful teams. Remarkable!
However, this resident of Ballycumber appears to be taking the disappointing results more to heart ....
However, this resident of Ballycumber appears to be taking the disappointing results more to heart ....
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Bord na Mona man
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Biff, we are the Faithful county!
After some initial despair, by late yesterday evening, we were saying that the Tommy Murphy Cup is one of the few trophies Offaly have never won and this would be a good year to win it.
That Division 4 is a good place to hide out and annex a Leinster title.
That only for the soft Limerick goals and Offaly not taking their own goal chances, the hurling would have been in the balance!
The optimistic Doon locals discuss Offaly's upcoming chances:
After some initial despair, by late yesterday evening, we were saying that the Tommy Murphy Cup is one of the few trophies Offaly have never won and this would be a good year to win it.
That Division 4 is a good place to hide out and annex a Leinster title.
That only for the soft Limerick goals and Offaly not taking their own goal chances, the hurling would have been in the balance!
The optimistic Doon locals discuss Offaly's upcoming chances:
Football
As it stands, we will beat Carlow. We then play the winners of Meath/Kildare/Dublin. We easily beat Kildare last year, Meath just scraped into the Division 2 final and Dublin didn't set the world alight. It's not beyond possibility that we could reach another Leinster final and thus avoid the ignomy of the Tommy Murphy Cup. Any takers?
Esto Fidelis
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the bare biffo
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Yes Carlow should be beaten as things stand.
Dublin still look the most likely opponents after that. They havent improved since last year, but in reality they beat us well then. We competed for 50/55 minutes then collapsed. Yes the sending off had an impact but we were already on the backfoot before it happened.
The problem is at this minute, we are gone backwards. But then its 8 weeks before the Carlow game and another 2 if that is won, before a provincial semi final. Lots of time for Pat Roe to work whatever magic he has in mind.
Possible but not likely.
Dublin still look the most likely opponents after that. They havent improved since last year, but in reality they beat us well then. We competed for 50/55 minutes then collapsed. Yes the sending off had an impact but we were already on the backfoot before it happened.
The problem is at this minute, we are gone backwards. But then its 8 weeks before the Carlow game and another 2 if that is won, before a provincial semi final. Lots of time for Pat Roe to work whatever magic he has in mind.
Possible but not likely.
"The ball may pass, but the man, never."
The end is near
I'm usually not a proponent of building up one's opponents as if we could never win - a very common and amusing tradition within the GAA, but all this doom and gloom should roll on right up to championship game time, if even just for fun.
As the swarm of interviews approach (and they will come just like every year) such is the fascination with 'everything' Offaly in the early parts of the championship season - perhaps a low key approach is the way...
'We have no chance so we are preparing for 2008 at this stage. We are after all just a rural county keeping the GAA flag flying. It is an honor to participate in these great games. The teams took the week off from training to have a cermonial turf cutting and subsequent piss up, just to get the footballers and hurlers together. You know, a bit of socializing. We enjoy that. Just to show their commitment, all players have agreed to go off the fags the week beofre the first championship game. Our supporters are looking forward to their day out and are in good spirit carrying no further expectations...blah, blah, blah..."
As the swarm of interviews approach (and they will come just like every year) such is the fascination with 'everything' Offaly in the early parts of the championship season - perhaps a low key approach is the way...
'We have no chance so we are preparing for 2008 at this stage. We are after all just a rural county keeping the GAA flag flying. It is an honor to participate in these great games. The teams took the week off from training to have a cermonial turf cutting and subsequent piss up, just to get the footballers and hurlers together. You know, a bit of socializing. We enjoy that. Just to show their commitment, all players have agreed to go off the fags the week beofre the first championship game. Our supporters are looking forward to their day out and are in good spirit carrying no further expectations...blah, blah, blah..."