Underage Hurling and Football 2025

[jimbob17]

Ferbane and Tullamore played a belter of an U14A county final last weekend. How many off both teams are in development squads V how many should be. Answer that question and you'd get a very clear picture of how far off we are. Previously, lads had to be making their school and club teams to be on a development squad. There are lads in some of the squads who are struggling to make their club teams and not making school teams. Is this wise spending of development squad money?

It's not cut and dried, there's argument both ways, but I was at that final, and you could very well make the counterpoint that the footballers in those two clubs are the ones least in need of a Development Squad, because clearly they're in a healthy, well-structured environment right now that is providing them very good support and guidance.

I will say that Ferbane/Belmont were probably a little bit more dependent on Adam Kelly but I still thought their execution of the core skills of the game was good, they just weren't quite as athletically strong as Tullamore, and they didn't always pick the right option on the ball. But when it came to the winners, yes they had talented players, but they were also very slick and cohesive in how they played, they invariably made the right decisions and played the right passes. All the hallmarks of good coaching were there.

I'm not for a second saying that Tullamore (or Ferbane/Belmont) players should be left out of Offaly development squads, but there absolutely is an argument to say that players from other, weaker clubs would benefit a lot more from that exposure to high standards, even if it might lead to poorer results on the field in competitive U-14 intercounty games, and it could well be better for Offaly football in the long run.

I agree it isn't cut and dried and I guess really, this is a philosophical thing. My preference would be to go after the best athletic talent and get them involved at U14 level. I'd be trying to win games with genuine competition for places and giving everybody time, to get buy in, to bring a squad together who are enjoying playing for Offaly to build for following year with view to being as strong as possible at minor. It wouldnt be all about winning by the way, but improvement and trying to win and building a camaraderie among the group that'd serve them well so they wanted to play for Offaly, would be important. That in its simplest terms would be my philosophy.

Of course those in the A club finals have a better environment for development, probably down to higher level of depth in club squad and often higher level of club coaching than many others. I'd also suggest however, that if the level of development squad coaching is at the requisite level, it would make those better players even better - and that is the piece I'd feel the more elite multi sport guys miss out on.

I accept the counter argument of your last paragraph if that is the reasoning behind current squad selections. However, It'd be interesting to know how many of those that played that A final were on the U14 football squad. Further to that, it would be very interesting to find out the results of the U14 football development squad for 2026, which no doubt I am sure you'd be able to get........

[Anon444]

Fair enough LS, good to know we haven’t fallen out fully yet!

TarMan as far as I’m aware, the development squads are mainly ran by volunteer parents and coaches, with some remaining staff helping with a maximum of 1/2 teams. At least it was last year, it could be subject to change. Now, I will say the Setanta plan will add to this, unless it is college students coming in for unpaid work experience. But I take your points.

I still don’t think it’s as clear cut as you say regarding what parents would prefer, training on evenings or training on Saturdays. It’s not like 100% of parents would say one or the other, what would suit me might suit you differently. Admittedly, and I may be making my own argument weaker, it would cost more to run them in the evenings due to paying for lights.

I cannot fathom how people running underage sport would not consider even talking to each other and trying to work out something for the benefit of all. I think it would be in the GAA’s best interest as they will 99% of the time always win out. Are you turning potential players off ‘it’ or demotivating them to represent us at senior by having missed out on other sports from U13s up essentially, based on the timelines of the Faithful Og now?

Again, as I’ve been asked to make suggestions; Could you do something like U14s & U15s train in FF on say a Thursday and then U16s are required to commit more seriously and go potentially Saturdays? I preface this by saying you could try it, it might never work and it would need to be thought out more carefully than just doing that. But at least it would be trialed and it’s result would be known.

100% agree that we should study other counties and pick off what may apply to ourselves. Would be fascinating to know what the Laois’ and Westmeaths are doing if anyone has any insight.

[Lone Shark]

Fair enough LS, good to know we haven’t fallen out fully yet!

Probably best, I've enough enemies from all the Israeli bots that are coming after me on Twitter, no need to pick more fights among the real people on here....

I cannot fathom how people running underage sport would not consider even talking to each other and trying to work out something for the benefit of all. I think it would be in the GAA’s best interest as they will 99% of the time always win out. Are you turning potential players off ‘it’ or demotivating them to represent us at senior by having missed out on other sports from U13s up essentially, based on the timelines of the Faithful Og now?

In the case of most underage sport, those at the higher end of it have enough to be doing providing a balanced games programme for those children that play their sport, and only their sport. Certainly in GAA, it's already pure hardship balancing club, county, schools, football, hurling etc., asking people to factor in soccer and rugby as well is madness. And then even if you do that, next thing someone pops up who is a prodigious boxer, track athlete or golfer (all of which are sports that we've produced more elite stars than we have in soccer or rugby!! ), and the cries go up that we should be changing things around to suit them as well.

But likewise, if we try and sit down with rugby, they're gonna say that they already have to build a calendar to allow their best young players to play for their club, their school, their province and God knows what else. They're not going to factor in the couple of lads that want to play county hurling into the bargain.

And to be honest, if someone is so easily put off playing for Offaly that at 20 years of age they decide 'feck it, those hoors didn't change around the whole underage structure so that I could play with then and with Athlone Town when I was 14', then I don't think anyone like that is sufficiently driven to be a difference maker for the county.

Again, as I’ve been asked to make suggestions; Could you do something like U14s & U15s train in FF on say a Thursday and then U16s are required to commit more seriously and go potentially Saturdays? I preface this by saying you could try it, it might never work and it would need to be thought out more carefully than just doing that. But at least it would be trialed and it’s result would be known.

Off the top of my head, the immediate impact of something like that is that it knocks out half the week for club activity. If you're a dual club, a Shamrocks, Clara, Rynagh's or a Ferbane Belmont for example, chances are that you have a couple of players on the U15s and a couple on the U16s, and that these lads also play on your club U16 football and hurling teams, and possibly even your minor teams.

So if you want to arrange it to give more than 24 hours between a county session and potentially an important club championship match, the only days you have left to arrange all your U16 hurling and football, and all your minor hurling and football, are Monday and Tuesday. And that's not gonna work.

100% agree that we should study other counties and pick off what may apply to ourselves. Would be fascinating to know what the Laois’ and Westmeaths are doing if anyone has any insight.

This for me is the big thing. There's no reason why we should be uniquely affected by this. We have a relatively small playing population (smaller than it should be for our actual population, which is a different problem!) but there's no reason why we should be suffering from this any more than Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, etc. There has to be something else going on here, if our results are as spectacularly bad as all that.

[Tar Man]

It appears Tar Man that you either clearly have a vested interest in winning this argument, are thinking on a much higher level than I, or you are unable to see or engage with a legitimate point of argument.

I do have a vested interest - I'm both a parent and involved in my own club. I have attended County Board meetings on behalf of my Club but have no role in the County Board or anything to do with Development Squads.

Can you let us know what you're interest is - At times you seem to be simply having a go at the Development Squads Selection Committee - have you a child that is playing multiple sports and can't commit to the Squad? And I've no issue with you if that's the case.

The GAA is a Democratic Organisation - despite what is claimed here at times - make your arguments to your own club - gain support - bring that to a County Board Meeting and gain support from the other Clubs - It then gets changed if you have enough support. As you will have gathered I won't be supporting your position as I don't think it'll benefit the County in the long run - in fact you'll only encourage more players to play multiple sports and lose the benefits of the Development Squads.

I would worry though if some of the things you're asserting above are true - players been blocked from Minor teams etc but I find that hard to believe. Surely that would have come out in the Media if true. Perhaps you can give us some examples of where this has happened and are there coaches who are prepared to go on the record regarding same. I'm sure that some of our local Journalists would love to follow that story because if it is happening then that is a major issue which goes against what we are being told by the County Board.

As I have stated again and again we as a County are in a precarious position with regards to our Demographics - My main interest in getting involved in this debate is so we don't put any bad results in future down to Development Squads when the main reason is the Demographics issue. As I stated before my son attends the Faithful Og programme and that was where my eyes were opened - only about 60 lads doing Football and another 60 doing Hurling. So you then have to pick a Development Squad of around 35 - it'll be harder not to make the squad than make it.

[jimbob17]

Fair enough LS, good to know we haven’t fallen out fully yet!

Probably best, I've enough enemies from all the Israeli bots that are coming after me on Twitter, no need to pick more fights among the real people on here....

I cannot fathom how people running underage sport would not consider even talking to each other and trying to work out something for the benefit of all. I think it would be in the GAA’s best interest as they will 99% of the time always win out. Are you turning potential players off ‘it’ or demotivating them to represent us at senior by having missed out on other sports from U13s up essentially, based on the timelines of the Faithful Og now?

In the case of most underage sport, those at the higher end of it have enough to be doing providing a balanced games programme for those children that play their sport, and only their sport. Certainly in GAA, it's already pure hardship balancing club, county, schools, football, hurling etc., asking people to factor in soccer and rugby as well is madness. And then even if you do that, next thing someone pops up who is a prodigious boxer, track athlete or golfer (all of which are sports that we've produced more elite stars than we have in soccer or rugby!! ), and the cries go up that we should be changing things around to suit them as well.

But likewise, if we try and sit down with rugby, they're gonna say that they already have to build a calendar to allow their best young players to play for their club, their school, their province and God knows what else. They're not going to factor in the couple of lads that want to play county hurling into the bargain.

And to be honest, if someone is so easily put off playing for Offaly that at 20 years of age they decide 'feck it, those hoors didn't change around the whole underage structure so that I could play with then and with Athlone Town when I was 14', then I don't think anyone like that is sufficiently driven to be a difference maker for the county.

Again, as I’ve been asked to make suggestions; Could you do something like U14s & U15s train in FF on say a Thursday and then U16s are required to commit more seriously and go potentially Saturdays? I preface this by saying you could try it, it might never work and it would need to be thought out more carefully than just doing that. But at least it would be trialed and it’s result would be known.

Off the top of my head, the immediate impact of something like that is that it knocks out half the week for club activity. If you're a dual club, a Shamrocks, Clara, Rynagh's or a Ferbane Belmont for example, chances are that you have a couple of players on the U15s and a couple on the U16s, and that these lads also play on your club U16 football and hurling teams, and possibly even your minor teams.

So if you want to arrange it to give more than 24 hours between a county session and potentially an important club championship match, the only days you have left to arrange all your U16 hurling and football, and all your minor hurling and football, are Monday and Tuesday. And that's not gonna work.

100% agree that we should study other counties and pick off what may apply to ourselves. Would be fascinating to know what the Laois’ and Westmeaths are doing if anyone has any insight.

This for me is the big thing. There's no reason why we should be uniquely affected by this. We have a relatively small playing population (smaller than it should be for our actual population, which is a different problem!) but there's no reason why we should be suffering from this any more than Laois, Westmeath, Carlow, etc. There has to be something else going on here, if our results are as spectacularly bad as all that.

I don't know what other counties are doing exactly but from having previous involvement in a Westmeath underage squad in a previous life, I know that they are not without the volume we are without and find ways around facilitating the best talent. For a start, they tend to have more reasonable working relations with coaches and parents and they are not near as militant on their rules and regulations - and that is taking into account their abject lack of facilities in comparison to us. I know they looked on at Offaly with high levels of jealousy over the last 10 years or so with our facilities and underage successes. I also think the constant staff turnover in Offaly is not helpful and largely in contrast to Westmeath who seem to have been able to hold on to their staff in much higher proportions, despite them being on exact same payscales. Offaly have had maybe 3 different Games managers and 5 different full time employed S&C coaches over the last 5 or 6 years or so and there is lots of change below that level too. Why is that? Someone needs to lift off the hood and start asking those hard questions. That majorly hinders the building of relationships which allows the system to grow and every time someone leaves the building, all those relationships into clubs and schools and knowledge leaves with them.

For all that westmeath Laois comparison, I'd be more in favour of looking at what we are doing now, versus what we were doing at development level 5-15 years ago in the 2011-2021 development squad era when those that were in charge then brought through the successful minor and U20 teams through development squads. In that time we developed the groups that went on to reach a couple of U20 football finals, minor football final and number of hurling Leinster finals. That way of doing things was proven to be way ahead of where we are now and way ahead of where Laois or Westmeath were then also.

If the development squads were to try a week day, you'd have to keep U15 and U16 on together at same day as their age grade for club games need to be the same. If this was deemed worthy of looking at, maybe as a starting point, the U14 slot is the one to work with moving, and staying open to multi sports players at least at U14 grade. For example, if the U14 matches were on a Tuesday night, and development session was on a Friday, what is the difference between a Friday and a Saturday? It would show a bit of compromise and at least go a small bit towards trying to engage the higher end talented multi sports players to get them started in the system. And if that is done right, they may choose to stay with us over soccer or rugby......

Sometimes I think that the organisers forget that the kids need a bit of down time also and this is right across the board. Too much of anything is not good. Remember that when the clubs are over, all of these younger players are still going through their Cumann Na mBunscoil competitions from September through to April, and at second level they also have schools matches and training. As such, I don't think there is a need to start so early in the year with Development squads. If the development squads are to start as early as they do, with schools and club activity also cutting in, you are looking at burnout for lots of them, particularly the best ones who often play up in age and across codes. When do young lads get time to decompress and build an appetite to go back to it for new season. If they are to start in January or February as they do, an hour in the gym per week is enough until they get to April, when schools activity wraps up. If that is done through a regional based Setanta programme with qualified personnel, then it really lightens the load on players and parents and they'd bounce in to Offaly squads after St Patricks weekend or in early April. I think for lots of parents and kids, the enjoyment is being taken away by the length of season and sheer volume of training expected.

If an U14 were to be on a club U16 team playing a match, then they'd go with them if there was a clash. That is a great problem to have and would allow coaches to have space at times to invite in and look at other lads doing well in clubs. The same could apply to an U16 playing minor and would also alleviate burnout where a talented lad trains with development squad and plays matches with own age and two years up - and sometimes in two codes for ultra talented boys. There should be constant opportunity for panel adjustments made by the coaches involved to manage these squads and engage with clubs and coaches and parents. These decisions need to be taken away from power broking committee people sitting on chairs who don't know the players and who never see them play as a matter of priority. The way it has gone is like the dark ages, where the actual coaches have no say and committee politics run the manor. It is like the old rugby politics of 1960's Irish rugby team selections where certain power brokers on committees have more influence over others. While Cork Constitution and Old Wesley got plenty of Irish caps, Ireland won plenty of wooden spoons in that era. If this caper continues, and we continue to lose to Roscommon in hurling and get hockeyed by average Tailteann Cup counties 2nd and 3rd teams in football, Offaly GAA is headed for plenty of them wooden spoons also at senior level.

[Tar Man]

Many are strong GAA people and coaches seem to be walking away too, as are GAA development staff, which appears to be a HR issue at this stage, such is the level of walkouts. If Offaly GAA was a business, and there was an audit by HR company on results, underage performance levels, talent retention and staff relations and retention at this point, then I think those charged with overseeing all of this would be in a fairly sticky spot.

I'm not going to respond any further to your post - we clearly differ in our thoughts on this point - and that's ok - I've said before that the GAA is a Democratic Organisation and there are ways to make changes.

I do want to pick up on your point above. Make no mistake about it - Offaly GAA is a business and we all need to recognise this as a fact - they have incomings and outgoings like any other business. In relation to the HR Issue that you mention and has been mentioned before - keep mentioning it and somehow it becomes true. I'm not saying it's not true - the simple fact is that Offaly are losing a lot of coaches - we as a club are losing our GPO. I had a good chat with him and he's leaving due to pay - he absolutely loved his job but the fact is that the pay isn't great. The Public Service are recruiting again and he was able to obtain a permanent pensionable job there - Fair play to him - He was a lovely lad and an excellent coach and I'm delighted that he's progressing in life - He won't be lost to the GAA fully - just the day to day.

Which brings me back to my original point about Offaly GAA being a business. i don't know the current financial position apart from what I read in the papers about the Revenue Audit of all GAA Counties. From memory Offaly got caught for north of 100K (which was the lower end of the scale compared to other counties) - this related to the level of expenses paid to coaches rather than PAYE Income. Obviously the Cost of Living in this country has risen substantially and maybe Offaly GAA cannot offer better salaries to our coaches. Does everyone on here do the Offaly GAA 50:50 each week - this is where the money goes. Maybe you're correct about the HR Issue - I don't know but from talking to people this is not what I'm hearing.

[Tmacmahon]

Is there something like 10 or 11 staff who have left recently, including another Games Manager?
Who actually makes the decisions to let these people go? Is it the individual clubs, people in O’Connor Park/Offaly County Board, Leinster GAA, or Croke Park?
And why does it seem like so many people are leaving or being moved on in Offaly? I appreciate salary issues and what not but the tone of the county at present appears to insinuate that its more a deliberate culling? The same two or three names keep popping up as having total control over everything?What is actually going on?

[Anon444]

Does anyone have exact knowledge of the old system we operated under? I’m almost certain most teams trained on an evening.

I’ve made suggestions and people have made fair rebuttals which I acknowledge. But could there be a combination in the middle between what we do now and what we did to try gain any advantage

[jimbob17]

To best of my knowledge, these jobs are not hugely well paid but they would be a decent salary all the same - probably in the region of a starting nurses or civil servants salary. The money as far as I know is met by Leinster GAA, Offaly GAA and club concerned, with Leinster putting up half the money. At least that is how it used to be. There will always be a degree of change in these roles to certain extent for sure, given nature of them, but for many, with passions of the GAA, it is a dream job for people. The games managers as I understand is one per county, and is a very well paid role and way more than games promotion officer role.

I had heard that 7-9 staff were leaving or left, but if true, 10-11 people incl a games manager all at same time is somewhat alarming. That is pretty much well over 90% of staff. While there would be a natural level of turnover, and there may be genuine other reasons, you'd expect a turnover rate to be somewhat on a par with other counties of similar size and population. These are peoples jobs and each is entitled to make own decisions, but if all leaving of own volition at same time, you'd have to wonder......

With regard to what was done previously, there seemed to be a capacity found to find, include and keep the best players around the county. Dave O'Hare and Conal Mahon would have been overseeing the S&C side of things in full time capacity after the TUS sport science students were removed from S&C around 2016 or so. When the FF opened, S&C development was a major part of it. Mahon left around 2022 or so but both of those were central to minor and U20 hurling and football campaigns in those years.

On the pitch aspect before that, the development squads used to train once per week on weekday evening from maybe end of March / April - August or so, and stopped as the club competitions got to knockout stages. Once a month or so, teams played in a blitz on a Saturday - maybe 4 or so in a year. Some teams also then played in tournaments, so Tony Forristal and Arrabawn in hurling, Adam Mangan and Fr Manning Cup football - often 2 or 3 group games and then more based on progression to knockout stages or otherwise. All in, probably 8-10 match days in year, and one weekly training session from April to August - maybe 20 or so sessions with week or two off for builders / coaches holidays. The managers were empowered and left alone to manage their teams. The weekday sessions meant that the talented lads that played their bit of rugby or soccer from Sep-May were rarely forced to choose between sports and as result, a much higher proportion of our best talent got hooked in and stayed with GAA. This in essence ensured our standards were higher when playing other counties and played a major role in what ultimately became minor and U20 success in both codes at Leinster and All Ireland level. Through part of year, the S&C element would've been done remotely and tested to best of my knowledge at various stages, while at some parts, it would be group session in FF.

Just as a point of attention, those that won Leinster minor hurling and U20 All Ireland afterwards, initially made a Tony Forristal U14 All Ireland A final around 2018 or 2019 because the best players were there to play. They had a great start and got major buy in from that. We all saw how that turned out.

A crew of footballers made an Adam Mangan U15 Tournament Cup final, losing narrowly to Galway I think. The same group or lots of them went on to play a minor final I think in one of Covid years losing narrowly to Meath after replay and that included likes of Cormac Egan, John Furlong, Keith O Neill who went on to win U20 All Ireland. Other groups from older category of footballers played in consecutive Fr Manning Cup finals (U16) in mid 2010's with most of those going on to play in Leinster U21 final in 2017 or 2018, some of whom are central to senior team now, with Kyle Higgins, Dylan Hyland and Jordan Hayes being three of them in those Fr Manning Cup teams. However, under todays rules, those three would've been lost to other sports for that development stage period and theyd not have had that success, and may have been lost to other sports altogether. This was replicated multiple times over in other years, with net effect being that the best talent often got kept in the system so we became competitive across the grades and codes. The point is that getting that early momentum and little bit of underage success bought buy in to GAA among the most talented lads, and then this fed later successes that became national success stories.

What we have now is an exclusion of these multi sport players largely at younger U14 - U16 levels with a major job then for minor manager to figure out who is who in short space of time with those returning or let return..... It is much less streamlined for a minor manager now for them to figure out a newish group and get the most out of a relatively new U17 group in short space of time.

Look, this really is a difference of philosophies really. Doctors differ and patients die, but I just don't think we have enough raw material to exclude anybody, particularly our best athletes, who are in demand in all sports.

[Anon444]

Don’t think these type of players are being excluded, I just don’t think we are producing these type of athletes. Maybe that’s down to our policies, maybe it’s population related or maybe it’s just that other counties have a bit of a jump on us. Hopefully, the Setanta plans will help this.

[frankthetank]

Updated underage hurling Fixtures

U14 A Final: SBK vs K/K 11/10 in Birr at 11am
U14 B Final: DSK vs Tullamore 10/10 in Rath at 2.30pm
U14 C Final: Kinnitty/Lusmagh vs Clara 11/10 in Killeigh at 1.15pm

U16 A Final: Shamrocks vs St Rynaghs 18/10 in Birr at 11am
U16 B Final: Kinnitty/Lusmagh or Na Fianna vs CRCC or Edenderry. TBC

Minor A Semi Finalists: K/K, Tullamore, Birr, Ferbane/Belmont
Minor B Final: Kinnitty/Lusmagh or Gracefield vs CRCC or Na Fianna. TBC

U20 Final: K/K vs SBK 10/10 in Birr at 2pm