Underage Hurling and Football 2025

[Anon444]

When I say work with clubs, I don’t mean Connacht or Athlone. I mean the local clubs. Athlone and similar are going to ask what Offaly asks of their players.

The burnout I mean is mental, how many kids have just get sick of it? I know it goes on in every club and county, but again Offaly’s population cannot maintain this. It needs to be enjoyable for as long as possible and I’m not sure it is at the moment.

[Lone Shark]

When I say work with clubs, I don’t mean Connacht or Athlone. I mean the local clubs. Athlone and similar are going to ask what Offaly asks of their players.

The burnout I mean is mental, how many kids have just get sick of it? I know it goes on in every club and county, but again Offaly’s population cannot maintain this. It needs to be enjoyable for as long as possible and I’m not sure it is at the moment.

Honestly, I don't doubt you're coming from a good place here, but all I'm getting are Helen Lovejoy vibes, i.e. "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!!", but wth absolutely nothing suggested whatsoever, other than what we're doing is wrong.

The post at the end of page eight from Tar Man is pretty much on the nose, from start to finish. If Offaly has an issue that we need to address, it's the relative weakness of our club scene. We might have a small population but we exacerbate that by how we actually have very few players actively playing ball, for the population we have in a rural county. Westmeath had 23 teams play minor football in 2026, we had 16. Offaly had 15 teams play U-16 football in 2026, Westmeath had 25. Yes Westmeath is a slightly bigger county by population and we have a slightly (only slightly!) bigger hurling area than they do, but even still, this is Offaly, the GAA culture runs a lot deeper here than on the other side of the M6, and we're not showing it.

The number one priority has to be our club scene, so it needs to be a case of put that in place, and then county activity is all built round that.

Again, just to knock on the head one or two lines from the thread:

In terms of the county squads kids playing other sports at the minute, they won’t. They won’t go training when the enjoyment is in the matches and they can’t play them. That’s anecdotal as I’ve seen it in my clubs having been involved in both.

Again, the point of development squads is written in the name, it's to develop players. The right players for any development squad are the players that are available to play a full, active part in them, not the ones that will show up occasionally, depending on their other commitments. It's the same in any sport, when you go from playing with your local club to playing at a slightly higher level, then of course that comes with sacrifice, and it has to be that way. If you're a county GAA player, or you're signed up with any soccer team that plays on a provincial or national level instead of your local CCFL club, or you're playing rugby at a level where you're on the radar for Connacht/Leinster, then of course you're not going to be able to do anything else. If we get to a situation where lads aren't able to play for Gallen United and Ferbane at the same time, then that's different.

The U11s, U12s, U13s are training as we speak for the last 6-8 weeks I believe, and only run for this time each year. The U13s have been told ‘you must attend to be considered for selection next year.’ So again, you’re basically stopping 12 and 13 year olds from going to another sport at their busiest time of the year before the weather turns.

I'd say I know the answer to this, but have you got that in writing, or is there someone willing to go on the record and say that they were told this by someone involved with Offaly GAA? Because my understanding is that these U-13 sessions are open to any player who wants to go in, and they are being used for trials for next year's U-14 squad, which is entirely reasonable because you have to start somewhere, and games from U-12 down are supposed to be non-competitive. But
if 2027 rolls around and there is a child that is recommended by their club, is playing ball with their club and they're happy to go in and available to do so, then the development squad coach can take them in.

Once more with feeling - if anyone is stopping players from playing club GAA, that is a scandal, and it needs to be called out. If however you're saying that lads should be allowed to keep everything else going to whatever level they like, and also to take up a development squad place and thus block out a child that is only interested in either football or hurling, then most people are just flat out not going to agree with you.

I suppose my rant is more so centred on potentially working with rather than opposed to each sport in Offaly. Once that has been tried, maybe then I’ll have to admit I was wrong and what we’re doing is the only way.

I'll ignore the second sentence there, which is dripping with sarcasm and exactly the type of point-scoring shite we're trying to get away from in this thread.

What exactly do you mean by the first bit? What does "working with" other sports actually mean in practice? Give me three or four examples of practical, clear steps that they could be taking, and aren't?

Because absolutely no-one here is trying to argue that there is no possible better way - of course there could well be, and we want to find it if so.

[Anon444]

I have to say, I am fairly surprised at your level of opposition to my points LS. To try go through them in your most recent post;

Absolutely the club scene is in need of help and it needs to happen quickly. You’ve asked me for suggestions so off the top of my head, I would move away from 15 a sides and try organise competitions where there are 7/8/9/11 asides. Now, it’s not really to do with what I’m saying but there’s a suggestion.

In terms of clashing with local clubs, anyone who is on the ground knows that it happens. At the minute, soccer and rugby games are fixed for Saturdays, fair enough. The U11s, U12s and U13s Faithful Programme is fixed for those at the minute. Is anyone saying that there is no possible way that these could be done during the summer? I really don’t believe that it can’t. So, you ask for my suggestions, well the first thing I would be doing is meeting whoever runs Offaly soccer and rugby mainly and try to see if there is something that can be arranged in terms of a calendar? Maybe a meeting like that would result in someone just saying ‘no we like it our way’ or maybe they can come to some arrangement where the GAA say ‘we are going to have our U12s training at this time so can you avoid having U12 soccer and rugby games at this time or leave a gap.’ Again, maybe nothing comes from it but it’s a suggestion.

I have seen the email regarding the U13s which was sent on to me from a relative and it states what I said. I don’t know what more you want or why is that a contentious point?

How am I being sarcastic? I genuinely asked an honest question. I’ve outlined one such suggestion above, maybe it could help. My only focus is making suggestions trying to improve Offaly GAA, similar to those who are making these decisions now. They are making the calls they see best to try improve our state of affairs, I just happen to disagree with a lot of them.

I know you say I am stating only what’s bad about our underage. There are good things too, but if we want to try improve going forward then we need to focus on areas which we all feel can be improved, as well as studying why something works. If nothing can be done and the general GAA population in Offaly are happy, well then I’ll eat humble pie and say I was wrong.

[Superhans75]

Remember any under 13 soccer or rugby , ect can play for any club he or she likes
The club system is the gaa strength but also it's weakness when you don't have the numbers.
If a good underage player is playing for an average team it can effect development.
A good coach can make an average team perform above iits level
But a good player can be ruined by a team that's poor or poorly coached

[jimbob17]

When I say work with clubs, I don’t mean Connacht or Athlone. I mean the local clubs. Athlone and similar are going to ask what Offaly asks of their players.

The burnout I mean is mental, how many kids have just get sick of it? I know it goes on in every club and county, but again Offaly’s population cannot maintain this. It needs to be enjoyable for as long as possible and I’m not sure it is at the moment.

Honestly, I don't doubt you're coming from a good place here, but all I'm getting are Helen Lovejoy vibes, i.e. "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!!", but wth absolutely nothing suggested whatsoever, other than what we're doing is wrong.

The post at the end of page eight from Tar Man is pretty much on the nose, from start to finish. If Offaly has an issue that we need to address, it's the relative weakness of our club scene. We might have a small population but we exacerbate that by how we actually have very few players actively playing ball, for the population we have in a rural county. Westmeath had 23 teams play minor football in 2026, we had 16. Offaly had 15 teams play U-16 football in 2026, Westmeath had 25. Yes Westmeath is a slightly bigger county by population and we have a slightly (only slightly!) bigger hurling area than they do, but even still, this is Offaly, the GAA culture runs a lot deeper here than on the other side of the M6, and we're not showing it.

The number one priority has to be our club scene, so it needs to be a case of put that in place, and then county activity is all built round that.

Again, just to knock on the head one or two lines from the thread:

In terms of the county squads kids playing other sports at the minute, they won’t. They won’t go training when the enjoyment is in the matches and they can’t play them. That’s anecdotal as I’ve seen it in my clubs having been involved in both.

Again, the point of development squads is written in the name, it's to develop players. The right players for any development squad are the players that are available to play a full, active part in them, not the ones that will show up occasionally, depending on their other commitments. It's the same in any sport, when you go from playing with your local club to playing at a slightly higher level, then of course that comes with sacrifice, and it has to be that way. If you're a county GAA player, or you're signed up with any soccer team that plays on a provincial or national level instead of your local CCFL club, or you're playing rugby at a level where you're on the radar for Connacht/Leinster, then of course you're not going to be able to do anything else. If we get to a situation where lads aren't able to play for Gallen United and Ferbane at the same time, then that's different.

The U11s, U12s, U13s are training as we speak for the last 6-8 weeks I believe, and only run for this time each year. The U13s have been told ‘you must attend to be considered for selection next year.’ So again, you’re basically stopping 12 and 13 year olds from going to another sport at their busiest time of the year before the weather turns.

I'd say I know the answer to this, but have you got that in writing, or is there someone willing to go on the record and say that they were told this by someone involved with Offaly GAA? Because my understanding is that these U-13 sessions are open to any player who wants to go in, and they are being used for trials for next year's U-14 squad, which is entirely reasonable because you have to start somewhere, and games from U-12 down are supposed to be non-competitive. But
if 2027 rolls around and there is a child that is recommended by their club, is playing ball with their club and they're happy to go in and available to do so, then the development squad coach can take them in.

Once more with feeling - if anyone is stopping players from playing club GAA, that is a scandal, and it needs to be called out. If however you're saying that lads should be allowed to keep everything else going to whatever level they like, and also to take up a development squad place and thus block out a child that is only interested in either football or hurling, then most people are just flat out not going to agree with you.

I suppose my rant is more so centred on potentially working with rather than opposed to each sport in Offaly. Once that has been tried, maybe then I’ll have to admit I was wrong and what we’re doing is the only way.

I'll ignore the second sentence there, which is dripping with sarcasm and exactly the type of point-scoring shite we're trying to get away from in this thread.

What exactly do you mean by the first bit? What does "working with" other sports actually mean in practice? Give me three or four examples of practical, clear steps that they could be taking, and aren't?

Because absolutely no-one here is trying to argue that there is no possible better way - of course there could well be, and we want to find it if so.

Not fully sure you are getting the full picture LS on how poorly we are competing at these levels. I used an example of losing to Roscommon and struggling over Wicklow in hurling. This is not for exaggeration purposes. This is actually happening and has happened. Westmeath are hockeying us at some levels in hurling. Singular Offaly teams are taking pastings off likes of Wexford and Tipperary 3rd teams in football. This is happening. It is happening to a point now where some of the best young lads think there is no point going in with the county and head off instead and play rugby and soccer with their school friends on a Saturday. Some of them laugh and scoff at the notion of some of their peers being involved with county squads as they struggle to make club teams and are not on their school teams. Talk to these young lads and the message is loud and clear. The Offaly jersey has become devalued in the minds of many of these young lads. This is certainly not what I would want for the county. Add this type of experience and environment up over time and it is very clear that the value of the Offaly jersey is reduced in the eyes of our young players. I think this is the biggest worry for me.

Offaly teams are going out without loads of their best talent as rules and policies have ensured they are 'not selected' some times against wishes of the coaches. At very early doors, there are ultimatums being given and if they are any way engaeged in other sports, they are dropped - and and sometimes against the coaches wishes. Of course there is going to be some talents that have other interests. What we are doing is dropping them early and turning them off, rather than holding their interest somewhat so that they choose Offaly over for example Athlone Town or Connaught / Leinster etc. Plenty of lads have been involved with Athlone Town underage in the past or FAI regional dev squads. Coaches were empowered to manage loads themselves and were able to keep lads engaged. Kyle Higgins played Offaly underage while being involved with high end rugby because the coaches were empowered to manage it. Dunican Hyland Tierney Hayes etc were similar and in demand when they were younger, as were Keith O Neill, Cormac Egan, Jack Bryant and Lee Pearson. They were not dumped out of the Offaly system for that and we benefitted as a result.

What was different then in terms of demands? Very little in fact but it was managed differently from Offaly GAA perspective. Those players as kids were kept engaged, as were many more that played minor and U20, who never played county senior. Coaches won the hearts and minds of this talent and all listed went on to have good senior careers. That is the type of talent we are currently excluding. You have to imbue a love of playing for Offaly in some of these lads. We are pissing them and their parents off and I don't say that lightly. Many are strong GAA people and coaches seem to be walking away too, as are GAA development staff, which appears to be a HR issue at this stage, such is the level of walkouts. If Offaly GAA was a business, and there was an audit by HR company on results, underage performance levels, talent retention and staff relations and retention at this point, then I think those charged with overseeing all of this would be in a fairly sticky spot.

Worryingly, I am aware of incidences where there were blocks attempted and made to exclude some of this elite level talent returning to play for the county minors despite this committee suggesting this is not the case. Ask any of the recent county minor managers and you'd get a very clear picture of the levels of interference by members of this infamous committee on who can be a member of panel or management and who cannot. There is an over-reach of control involved, way beyond what would be considered healthy and or transparent. Development coaches have zero autonomy at times on who they can select for panel. If they see players doing well during league matches, those who are making school teams ahead of lads that are on the panels and they want to look at them, the committee who never sees them in action, doesn't know anything about them, says no. This is happening to lads who don't play other sports too, lest there is a misunderstanding. I have it on good authority from coaches involved that this has happened on multiple occasions during both this year and last year. Coaches and team management should have control of selection of panels, not the 'development committee'.

There is a battle for talent and our current policies are ensuring we are losing this battle massively - which to me is mind boggling.

For me, 'working with other sports' is quite simple.

A. Firstly do not scratch them off the list forever if they fail to attend the first trial at U14.
B. Schedule development squad sessions at times where they don't clash with elite level soccer or rugby where possible, particularly at certain times of the year where we know there are pinch points.
C. Do not drop the best talent if they are unavailable for 2 or 3 sessions at these certain pinch points of the year.
D. Allow coaches to engage with parents to figure out the loads involved with their players so they can be managed better.
E. Bend the rules. The talented guy in other elite system doesnt need to also do S&C with Offaly as part of the 'contract for engagement'!
F. Put the S&C aspect into the schools and widen the base on that. It negates the volume of crossover time on a Saturday.
G. Previously, development squad teams trained on a Thursday evening and on a blitz day Saturday from April to August, that was one Saturday per month. That is worth exploration, particularly from March to May to avoid rugby. The elite level soccer will now run through Summer so that is a bigger thing across GAA season. This is worth consideration - a week evening at certain time of year that will not interfere with age grade matches. I understand it that it may be hard for parents on edges of county, but the Saturday is resulting in excluding the best talent totally. And if the S&C was done differently, you wouldn't need to go to FF to train - more central location to Tullamore would be easier for likes of Edenderry players. Bare in mind if they are playing elite level soccer or rugby, parents drive them to Dublin / Athlone / Galway or Ballinasloe multiple times per week so the travel argument does not really stand up....
H. For the 5 or 6 multi-sport players playing elite across sports, empower the coaches to engage with other coaches to find solutions in best interest of these talented kids. Bend the rules for the best talent and get them engaged in brand Offaly!

That is 8 clear points regarding better engagement with parents, players and other sports that'd serve us much better.


Ferbane and Tullamore played a belter of an U14A county final last weekend. How many off both teams are in development squads V how many should be. Answer that question and you'd get a very clear picture of how far off we are. Previously, lads had to be making their school and club teams to be on a development squad. There are lads in some of the squads who are struggling to make their club teams and not making school teams. Is this wise spending of development squad money?

[Anon444]

Just to add, I saw a post earlier of S&C work being doing in secondary schools before classes started. This is a great initiative and I applaud anyone who was involved and hope it gets the buy in it deserves. Apologies if I am being glass half empty with earlier replies!

[wonka]

I have to say, I am fairly surprised at your level of opposition to my points LS. To try go through them in your most recent post;

Absolutely the club scene is in need of help and it needs to happen quickly. You’ve asked me for suggestions so off the top of my head, I would move away from 15 a sides and try organise competitions where there are 7/8/9/11 asides. Now, it’s not really to do with what I’m saying but there’s a suggestion.

In terms of clashing with local clubs, anyone who is on the ground knows that it happens. At the minute, soccer and rugby games are fixed for Saturdays, fair enough. The U11s, U12s and U13s Faithful Programme is fixed for those at the minute. Is anyone saying that there is no possible way that these could be done during the summer? I really don’t believe that it can’t. So, you ask for my suggestions, well the first thing I would be doing is meeting whoever runs Offaly soccer and rugby mainly and try to see if there is something that can be arranged in terms of a calendar?

I think there is a certain level of naivety here.
Soccer and rugby are 2 international professional sports.
Athlone Town & Connacht rugby are at the elite development level - they're 1 of the last amateur steps before pro level.
Everybody (coaches/paretns and kids) is dreaming of professional contract, no matter the massive odds stacked against them. They're all hoping they'lll be the 1 to win the lottery of a pro contract.

The GAA is an indiginous sporting and cultural body.
Though the GAA is the centre of our universe, it's pretty much an irrelevance to them.
Why would they sit down with the GAA to discuuss integrated timetables for dual players and to come halfway, it just dooes n't make sense?

Regarding Midlands league/CCFL/ local rugby,I'd say they're just not arsed.
Soccer is quite transient, players move around a lot, clubs ebb and flow, For these administrators, there is no county minor equivalent/end destination. A soccer administrator just wants to set his calendar, play his games , and a if a few rural clubs struggle because oif GAA, so be it. What is is motivation to accomodate dual GAA players, I don't see any.

[Tar Man]

I have seen the email regarding the U13s which was sent on to me from a relative and it states what I said. I don’t know what more you want or why is that a contentious point?

This is not the truth - No email was sent out - Parents registered on a WhatsApp Group and we received the details via this group so if you're incorrect on this how can we put any value in anything else you're peddling. The wording in relation to the 2027 Development Squad was as follows:

FAITHFUL OG is now being used as TRIALS for the 2027 U14 DEVELOPMENT SQUADS, which will begin in MID-OCTOBER.

Apologies to all, but I don't know how to attach an image to this post.

I think that this is correct way to pick Development Squads. In the past when the Clubs were sending in players, we had coaches, who were also parents sending their own kids in, and omitting better candidates because they didn't like the kids, they didn't like the kids parents, their kids didn't like the other kids etc etc. As I have previously stated this is not a Closed Shop, the matches will be monitored going forward, new squads are picked each year. Club Coaches can make suggestions and these kids will be looked at.

People keep bringing up Cian McNamee as a stick to beat the Development Squads with. I look at it as the system working very well - he was not lost to Offaly and will be a key player into the future.

That's not to say that all is rosy in the garden, We are down to 16 Underage Teams in a time that our population has never been higher (in the life of the GAA). Our Club scene is in big bother and no Development Squads setup can cover for this. With 41 Adult Clubs in the County at the moment the reality is that in the next 20 years or so nearly half of our Adult Clubs will be gone. This is the harsh reality.

[Tar Man]

For me, 'working with other sports' is quite simple.

A. Firstly do not scratch them off the list forever if they fail to attend the first trial at U14.
B. Schedule development squad sessions at times where they don't clash with elite level soccer or rugby where possible, particularly at certain times of the year where we know there are pinch points.
C. Do not drop the best talent if they are unavailable for 2 or 3 sessions at these certain pinch points of the year.
D. Allow coaches to engage with parents to figure out the loads involved with their players so they can be managed better.
E. Bend the rules. The talented guy in other elite system doesnt need to also do S&C with Offaly as part of the 'contract for engagement'!
F. Put the S&C aspect into the schools and widen the base on that. It negates the volume of crossover time on a Saturday.
G. Previously, development squad teams trained on a Thursday evening and on a blitz day Saturday from April to August, that was one Saturday per month. That is worth exploration, particularly from March to May to avoid rugby. The elite level soccer will now run through Summer so that is a bigger thing across GAA season. This is worth consideration - a week evening at certain time of year that will not interfere with age grade matches. I understand it that it may be hard for parents on edges of county, but the Saturday is resulting in excluding the best talent totally. And if the S&C was done differently, you wouldn't need to go to FF to train - more central location to Tullamore would be easier for likes of Edenderry players. Bare in mind if they are playing elite level soccer or rugby, parents drive them to Dublin / Athlone / Galway or Ballinasloe multiple times per week so the travel argument does not really stand up....
H. For the 5 or 6 multi-sport players playing elite across sports, empower the coaches to engage with other coaches to find solutions in best interest of these talented kids. Bend the rules for the best talent and get them engaged in brand Offaly!

That is 8 clear points regarding better engagement with parents, players and other sports that'd serve us much better.

A - Doesn't happen no matter how many times you say it - Cian McNamee is the example of this;
B - You seem to think these sessions are Mickey Mouse - these are serious sessions with plenty of expertise and serious cost is been incurred - they are scheduled to co-exist with the Club Games (which are the most important Development Tool);
C - I've answered this numerous times - you need close to full participation to get any benefit from the sessions. These sessions come at a substantial cost and if you're missing a portion of the squad each week, not only is there no benefit to the lads that don't attend but they is a reduced benefit to the lads that do attend;
D - Coaches engage with parents all the time
E - See C above
F - Thankfully the new school curriculums have a greater emphasis on PE. Offaly GAA now have a linkup with Killina Secondary School and I agree with you that more should be done on this
G - If a Child is travelling to Dublin / Athlone / Galway to play other Sports then they should be resting the other nights and catching up on their studies. If they're putting that effort in then we're getting the tired version of that Child and it is almost certain that the Child won't make it to an Elite level at any of the Sports. You other comment about moving the sessions away from where we have located all our expertise and equipment is just laughable - We fundraised for years to get a base and now you're advocating that we don't use it;
H - As in A above - I'm sure that our Development Squads Selection committees keep in close contact with these parents and the Club Coaches to see if their circumstances or objectives change. As stated before their is a new Development Squad each year and nothing is closed if a Child does not make U14.

I'll state again the Development Squads is not the be all and end all of a County's future - the most important work happens at Club & School level (and even at Home) - if these talented Children that can't commit to a Development Squad keep playing with their Clubs and Schools then we don't have an issue. The Development Squads will improve the Children that attend them, them Children will go back to their Clubs Improved and compete in training against other Children which will then improve them Children. These Development Squads are taking on a life of their own from a Status point of view which is not the way they should be viewed. The simple point of view is that some Children don't need to attend these sessions - Cian McNamee didn't need these sessions - he probably got a better Football Education kicking the ball around his back yard against Niall & Alan. Another Child got in instead and that Child may have had a significant input into our Leinster Minor Title or he may not and headed back to his Club as an improved player and improved the standards there.

[Anon444]

I have seen the email regarding the U13s which was sent on to me from a relative and it states what I said. I don’t know what more you want or why is that a contentious point?

This is not the truth - No email was sent out - Parents registered on a WhatsApp Group and we received the details via this group so if you're incorrect on this how can we put any value in anything else you're peddling. The wording in relation to the 2027 Development Squad was as follows:

FAITHFUL OG is now being used as TRIALS for the 2027 U14 DEVELOPMENT SQUADS, which will begin in MID-OCTOBER.

Apologies to all, but I don't know how to attach an image to this post.

I think that this is correct way to pick Development Squads. In the past when the Clubs were sending in players, we had coaches, who were also parents sending their own kids in, and omitting better candidates because they didn't like the kids, they didn't like the kids parents, their kids didn't like the other kids etc etc. As I have previously stated this is not a Closed Shop, the matches will be monitored going forward, new squads are picked each year. Club Coaches can make suggestions and these kids will be looked at.

People keep bringing up Cian McNamee as a stick to beat the Development Squads with. I look at it as the system working very well - he was not lost to Offaly and will be a key player into the future.

That's not to say that all is rosy in the garden, We are down to 16 Underage Teams in a time that our population has never been higher (in the life of the GAA). Our Club scene is in big bother and no Development Squads setup can cover for this. With 41 Adult Clubs in the County at the moment the reality is that in the next 20 years or so nearly half of our Adult Clubs will be gone. This is the harsh reality.

‘Players who have ambitions to be part of an Offaly Development Squad in 2027 should note that attendance and participation in this programme will be monitored and will form a compulsory part of the Development Squad selection process.’

Apologies, I didn’t have the text to hand and thought that when it was showed to me it was an email. I paraphrased but still stand by how I would interpret it, maybe I am wrong there too.

To say I’m peddling is unfair and very dismissive to someone who disagrees. All I’m trying to outline is that I would consider doing things differently from U15 down. So what, everyone thinks of doing things differently and that’s normal.

Above is a message I got the same relative to send to me and that is verbatim regarding the Setanta S&C programme that they are going to do with U13s up. That to me is similar to what I said before and I disagree with the tone of it. Fine if you want to say that’s the way they want to go about it and it should be the way to do it, I’ll respectfully disagree and move on.

[Lone Shark]

Not fully sure you are getting the full picture LS on how poorly we are competing at these levels. I used an example of losing to Roscommon and struggling over Wicklow in hurling. This is not for exaggeration purposes. This is actually happening and has happened. Westmeath are hockeying us at some levels in hurling. Singular Offaly teams are taking pastings off likes of Wexford and Tipperary 3rd teams in football. This is happening.

I don't doubt the facts above, I haven't heard those results but I've no reason to doubt you. I think however we're framing the discussion incorrectly, creating this binary thing where you're either "for" or "against" the way we do things now, rather than looking at the overall underage ecosystem in Offaly and trying to see what we can do better.

For the purposes of this point, I'll focus on hurling, if for no other reason than I live in Roscommon, I'm in the middle of Roscommon hurling territory (such as it is) and I'm aware of how bad things have gotten for hurling here. Most underage championships are three or four teams (Tooreen come in for league games) and Pádraig Pearses are the only club that consistently field standalone underage teams with no difficulty in putting 15 players on the field. Even Four Roads are running into problems with a few age groups, and even when they are okay to field a team, they usually draw heavily from all four eligible years, i.e. there will be two or three players in their first year out of U-12 playing on the U-16 team.

Honestly, if you told me that Ferbane/Belmont lost to Roscommon at U-14 or U-15 level, I'd be worried, so clearly that's a catastrophic situation, and from what you're describing, it's a pattern.

Also, the purposes of development squads is not to win development squad games - it's to help develop players through to minor level. While I'm not saying that there aren't problems coming down the tracks, I think we can fairly say that there are no warning signs at minor level in football yet, while the red flags are flying high when it comes to our hurling results. So let's look at hurling, and let's use Westmeath as the comparison, since you cite them as a team that are regularly beating us comprehensively. Rather than just focusing on how much better we might be if such and such an Offaly player, one that is brilliant at every sport, was on the pitch - instead, let's try and suss out what are Westmeath doing that we aren't?

Let's go to the hot button topics - let's say Westmeath have a player who is involved with Athlone Town, or is with Leinster or Connacht rugby. What specifically do they do, that we're not doing? And don't say vague things like "they work around it". Do we know what threshold they have for how many sessions you're allowed to miss? Do they move sessions to specific midweek days instead of Saturdays to make it feasible for that boy or those boys to take part?

Offaly have strict rules about how you're only eligible for development squads if you are making yourself available to your club for training and games as well, so if you are oversubscribed in terms of activity, you're not allowed to stay in with the county but pull yourself out of club activity to make it workable. I know that is unusual, but I see why they do it, and I'd be in favour of it. Is that the difference?

Is it the case that the Westmeath regularly have a huge amount of dual players lining out with their development squads? I know the logic in Offaly is that it's better to have two players exposed to the development squad environment, as opposed to one player filling a spot in both the hurling and football panels, and to be honest, with the long term view in mind, I can see why that approach would be better.

You refer to "pinch points" - the problem for me with that is that multi-sport eligibility means that by the time you add in those periods for schools rugby, interprovincial rugby, soccer, you've a lot of periods of the summer where you're taking a backwards step and deferring, and then you have to rejig your whole calendar to suit those other sports. So again, is that something Westmeath are doing?


I suppose in a nutshell, I've no dog in the hunt here in the sense that I'm not involved in an Offaly club on a day-to-day basis, and neither do I have a child playing at these ages. My only motivation is that Offaly GAA is objectively and competitively in a better place each year than it was the year before. But the keyword there is "better" - not just "different". It's easy to propose changes, but in matters like this where there are pros and cons to every approach, there needs to be some empirical evidence as to why you feel that changing strategies will make things better.

My fear is that when it comes to the issues around development squads, it's politician's logic.

(1) Something must be done!
(2) This is something
(3) We must do this!

This discussion first came up a few years ago, and one of the loudest voices that formed the parameters for the discussion was the father of the player at the heart of it, pitching the "solution" that there needed to be more leeway for players that are playing loads of different sports.

Since then, nobody seems to be asking the question whether or not that would make things better, and if there is any evidence to support that - they're just kicking and screaming, demanding that "Something must be done!" and latching onto the only idea that has been floated, anywhere.

[Lone Shark]

‘Players who have ambitions to be part of an Offaly Development Squad in 2027 should note that attendance and participation in this programme will be monitored and will form a compulsory part of the Development Squad selection process.’

Apologies, I didn’t have the text to hand and thought that when it was showed to me it was an email. I paraphrased but still stand by how I would interpret it, maybe I am wrong there too.

To say I’m peddling is unfair and very dismissive to someone who disagrees. All I’m trying to outline is that I would consider doing things differently from U15 down. So what, everyone thinks of doing things differently and that’s normal.

Above is a message I got the same relative to send to me and that is verbatim regarding the Setanta S&C programme that they are going to do with U13s up. That to me is similar to what I said before and I disagree with the tone of it. Fine if you want to say that’s the way they want to go about it and it should be the way to do it, I’ll respectfully disagree and move on.

I was probably overly confrontational in my earlier reply, so apologies for that - I'll try to be more reasonable here!

If I read that line - which I've since seen in the email as well - I would take it as meaning that this is a compulsory element of the selection process for the U-14 development squad of 2027. It's not the case that it will be held against you, your children, and your children's children, for ever more.

Now I'm sure there might be some leeway for players who don't make all the sessions; if nothing else injuries would surely dictate that any 13 year old could easily miss out on some of them. But ultimately, you have to pick a squad based on something, and this approach, while not perfect, is better than any alternative, since U-12 games are supposed to be non-competitive in theory, and you can't say that while also turning them into funnels for intercounty squads.

Now my understanding remains that coaches of development panels are free to ask other players to come in, and as long as those other players are making themselves available to their clubs, they are eligible to be added to the squad as the year goes on. I will say that this needs corroboration, I'm not taking it on blind faith or anything like it, but again, I don't think it's the case that if you miss the sessions this month, then there is no way you'll be part of the squad in 2027 at any time. It just means you won't be part of the initial squad, but if you're playing with your club and doing well, you can be called in.

And I'll be honest, I don't have a huge problem with that.

[Lone Shark]

Ferbane and Tullamore played a belter of an U14A county final last weekend. How many off both teams are in development squads V how many should be. Answer that question and you'd get a very clear picture of how far off we are. Previously, lads had to be making their school and club teams to be on a development squad. There are lads in some of the squads who are struggling to make their club teams and not making school teams. Is this wise spending of development squad money?

It's not cut and dried, there's argument both ways, but I was at that final, and you could very well make the counterpoint that the footballers in those two clubs are the ones least in need of a Development Squad, because clearly they're in a healthy, well-structured environment right now that is providing them very good support and guidance.

I will say that Ferbane/Belmont were probably a little bit more dependent on Adam Kelly but I still thought their execution of the core skills of the game was good, they just weren't quite as athletically strong as Tullamore, and they didn't always pick the right option on the ball. But when it came to the winners, yes they had talented players, but they were also very slick and cohesive in how they played, they invariably made the right decisions and played the right passes. All the hallmarks of good coaching were there.

I'm not for a second saying that Tullamore (or Ferbane/Belmont) players should be left out of Offaly development squads, but there absolutely is an argument to say that players from other, weaker clubs would benefit a lot more from that exposure to high standards, even if it might lead to poorer results on the field in competitive U-14 intercounty games, and it could well be better for Offaly football in the long run.

[private joker]

In regards to westmeath beating offaly at minor fairly easily, that will change in 2027.
Westmeath have a very poor minor team and I expect offaly to hurl in tier 1 in 2027. Something that was not achieved in the previous two years. Where I feel offaly may fall down will be vs laois who are good.
But I expect offaly to do much better that previous years regardless at how poor mgt are.

Offaly u16s played tier 1 hurling and competed very well. Pity none of that mgt team were asked on board.

[jimbob17]

For me, 'working with other sports' is quite simple.

A. Firstly do not scratch them off the list forever if they fail to attend the first trial at U14.
B. Schedule development squad sessions at times where they don't clash with elite level soccer or rugby where possible, particularly at certain times of the year where we know there are pinch points.
C. Do not drop the best talent if they are unavailable for 2 or 3 sessions at these certain pinch points of the year.
D. Allow coaches to engage with parents to figure out the loads involved with their players so they can be managed better.
E. Bend the rules. The talented guy in other elite system doesnt need to also do S&C with Offaly as part of the 'contract for engagement'!
F. Put the S&C aspect into the schools and widen the base on that. It negates the volume of crossover time on a Saturday.
G. Previously, development squad teams trained on a Thursday evening and on a blitz day Saturday from April to August, that was one Saturday per month. That is worth exploration, particularly from March to May to avoid rugby. The elite level soccer will now run through Summer so that is a bigger thing across GAA season. This is worth consideration - a week evening at certain time of year that will not interfere with age grade matches. I understand it that it may be hard for parents on edges of county, but the Saturday is resulting in excluding the best talent totally. And if the S&C was done differently, you wouldn't need to go to FF to train - more central location to Tullamore would be easier for likes of Edenderry players. Bare in mind if they are playing elite level soccer or rugby, parents drive them to Dublin / Athlone / Galway or Ballinasloe multiple times per week so the travel argument does not really stand up....
H. For the 5 or 6 multi-sport players playing elite across sports, empower the coaches to engage with other coaches to find solutions in best interest of these talented kids. Bend the rules for the best talent and get them engaged in brand Offaly!

That is 8 clear points regarding better engagement with parents, players and other sports that'd serve us much better.

A - Doesn't happen no matter how many times you say it - Cian McNamee is the example of this;
B - You seem to think these sessions are Mickey Mouse - these are serious sessions with plenty of expertise and serious cost is been incurred - they are scheduled to co-exist with the Club Games (which are the most important Development Tool);
C - I've answered this numerous times - you need close to full participation to get any benefit from the sessions. These sessions come at a substantial cost and if you're missing a portion of the squad each week, not only is there no benefit to the lads that don't attend but they is a reduced benefit to the lads that do attend;
D - Coaches engage with parents all the time
E - See C above
F - Thankfully the new school curriculums have a greater emphasis on PE. Offaly GAA now have a linkup with Killina Secondary School and I agree with you that more should be done on this
G - If a Child is travelling to Dublin / Athlone / Galway to play other Sports then they should be resting the other nights and catching up on their studies. If they're putting that effort in then we're getting the tired version of that Child and it is almost certain that the Child won't make it to an Elite level at any of the Sports. You other comment about moving the sessions away from where we have located all our expertise and equipment is just laughable - We fundraised for years to get a base and now you're advocating that we don't use it;
H - As in A above - I'm sure that our Development Squads Selection committees keep in close contact with these parents and the Club Coaches to see if their circumstances or objectives change. As stated before their is a new Development Squad each year and nothing is closed if a Child does not make U14.

I'll state again the Development Squads is not the be all and end all of a County's future - the most important work happens at Club & School level (and even at Home) - if these talented Children that can't commit to a Development Squad keep playing with their Clubs and Schools then we don't have an issue. The Development Squads will improve the Children that attend them, them Children will go back to their Clubs Improved and compete in training against other Children which will then improve them Children. These Development Squads are taking on a life of their own from a Status point of view which is not the way they should be viewed. The simple point of view is that some Children don't need to attend these sessions - Cian McNamee didn't need these sessions - he probably got a better Football Education kicking the ball around his back yard against Niall & Alan. Another Child got in instead and that Child may have had a significant input into our Leinster Minor Title or he may not and headed back to his Club as an improved player and improved the standards there.

It appears Tar Man that you either clearly have a vested interest in winning this argument, are thinking on a much higher level than I, or you are unable to see or engage with a legitimate point of argument.

A. Was there attempts to block some players returning for minor having been dropped from development squads previously for playing other sports? Yes McNamee got back in........ eventually....... but there were others not all that long ago that there were attempts to block coming back in. Does that sound like being welcomed back with open arms? Was McNamee welcomed back or did the manager have to fight to get him back in?

B. I have a good enough idea of what is involved in a training session. Ive been involved in GAA most of my life. Who said they were Mickey Mouse sessions. But they could be if you are operating with a fraction of best personnel within county and going around the country taking hidings off bang average teams. What is the substantial cost of a session? Are some coaches getting paid or what? My understanding was that it was all volunteers. I know a match away would cost money but a training session?

Re time involved, please explain the differential between running 10 of these sessions on a Saturday V a Thursday for example at pinch points of the year for multi sports players? The scheduling is the problem for some - the talented ones that everyone wants - soccer, rugby, GAA, athletics and basketball. Do you want to win the battle for the hearts of the best lads or not? Are we not slitting own throats by losing them so early? As for schedule, your point does not actually make much sense to me. There is still 7 days in the week. We are not talking about adding to a schedule. If you move one and move another session from sometime else in its place, it is the same time commitment. It does not take up more or less time. It is called boxing clever!

C. I am talking about the best 5/6/7 players at the most at each age grade that are equally good at other sports - but would make major difference to Offaly teams, not every jackharry that plays other sports at club level.

D. You'll love this. I know of at least 3 coaches who were told that they are not allowed to talk to parents, that it is the job of the committee to do that. Swallow that now, Hard to believe and unless you heard it actually said, you probably wouldn't believe it.

E. See C above.

F. S&C is a small fraction of a PE curriculum I am told and has been on it for many years I am led to believe. That changes nothing. Killina link up is great for Killina and that school's feeder clubs, I accept that. I wouldn't be quite sold on the benefits of that for Offaly. Killina might have 5% - 15% of development squad players at the most. Is that great for Offaly? What about Birr, Banagher, Tullamore X 2, Clara, Ferbane, Edenderry x 2 and Kilcormac schools which make up maybe 80% of players or the likes of Moate, Kilbeggan, Portarlington, Mountmellick, Rathangan, Athlone or Roscrea schools who might carry another 5-15% of players.

G. Give me strength. Resting up for soccer? Is that what you are advocating for? So lets just hand over the best players in the county to soccer and rugby and keep them fresh for those sports? Sure we shouldnt let them play club either so that Athlone Town and Leinster Rugby get the best out of them? Are you serious? Cian McNamee is from Rhode - family steeped in GAA. Rhode needing him means he is always going to come back. That'll likely happen also in smaller rural areas in smaller clubs with talented lads. What about the ultra talented lad from Tullamore or Edenderry where numbers are big who could take it or leave it.

Moving bases? We are talking about development squads here. Sure that is what they are planning to do with this new Setanta initiative if what is reported occurs. Are you against that also? What did Offaly do before Faithful Fields? The Kilcormac base is great and can be used by 6 other teams on regular basis - minor U20 and senior football and hurling - that will not go to waste and maybe Kilcormac school could use it. There are plenty of gyms around (most clubs have them) and the level of equipment needed at U14 /U15 / U16 is minimal at that age if you were doing it correctly.

H. As in A above, I am aware of kids who previously left for other sports or other reasons, who when the coaches sought to bring them back in later years after seeing them do well for clubs, and they were willing to come back, were blocked by the committee for reasons only best explained by them!

I fully agree that it is not the be all and end all. However, if we are going to be pumping a fortune into Setanta for these S&C coaches, and into bussing teams around the country to play matches and feeding them, a good starting point in my opinion (and I could be way off here) would be to have the best players we can in the building.

While emphasis should be on development, we ought to be competitive at a reasonable level in my opinion with these squads to prepare them for minor level as I would see minor as being important as it often sets the tone for what is to follow. While people can have philosophical differences here and I get that, I also know that other counties are not so fast to disengage with their best talent.

Look, we all want the same thing here and that is for Offaly to succeed. If this all works out and broadens the talent pool and we get back to winning Leinsters at minor and U20 like we did over last number of years through older development system, then I'll be first to say it was a brilliant idea and well done to all involved.

I could be way off here and I'd love to be right, but maybe there is a really broad depth and higher end level and scope of thinking involved here on part of those in charge, who are really thinking bigger picture stuff. They may be thinking that minor level doesn't really matter much and so our lads only a year or two from it at U16, U15 and U14 development squads can be weaker groups, and can be brought along to create that broader depth for U20 and senior squads further down the track. If this is the case, when those talented boys that don't get the provincial academy in rugby or LOI adult soccer contract at 18 or 19 return to the GAA to strengthen teams, then it could be a masterstroke - taking short term loss for longer term gain.

However, the last couple years of dev squad results is a genuine concern among genuine GAA people and I suppose the results garnered at minor and U20 level going forwards will ultimately decide if it worked or not.