Club Football

[kingscounty]

Whenever anyone complaints about the standard of refs they’re shot down as sour grapes. Never seems to be anything done about it ,I know it’s not an easy job and god knows they get dogs abuse but it doesn’t matter if it’s a final or first round there should be no way a ref takes charge of a game if he has links or lives anywhere near one of the teams, easier said than done I know when it’s hard to recruit. Is the option there for an out of county ref to take charge of a final.
Heartbreaking for Ferbane who put in a big effort and joy for Tullamore first time in a long time they did two in a row is it.

[Anonymous1]

Whenever anyone complaints about the standard of refs they’re shot down as sour grapes. Never seems to be anything done about it ,I know it’s not an easy job and god knows they get dogs abuse but it doesn’t matter if it’s a final or first round there should be no way a ref takes charge of a game if he has links or lives anywhere near one of the teams, easier said than done I know when it’s hard to recruit. Is the option there for an out of county ref to take charge of a final.
Heartbreaking for Ferbane who put in a big effort and joy for Tullamore first time in a long time they did two in a row is it.

Surely all refs should be required to state what clubs they have links with and therefore be debarred from reffing that clubs games, kind of like a register of interests.

I’ve also thought of the out of the county idea, seems an easy solution. Have the best club ref from Laois ref the Offaly final and vice versa.

[del]

Genuinely thought the ref had a poor game . The feeling amongst the Tullamore heads was he missed a stone wall peno in the first half and gave them easy frees . But in second half it was even enough

[llkj]

Several points I'd like to make :

1. I don't like that most of the posters so far have focused on the referee and called into question his integrity (albeit mainly in a concieted way). Posters on this forum were doing the same thing for a previous knockout game also. Very poor form.
2. Watching the game on Clubber, the general consensus from the two commentators was one of 'the ref made some strange calls on both sides, which probably evened themselves out over the course of the afternoon'. Reading the paper online, Kevin Corrigan also had the same viewpoint. Coming on here, you'd swear that Ferbane were absolutely rode.
3. With that in mind, I took a look at the game again now. I decided to focus on times when Ferbane got a favourable call from the ref that directly led to a score. There were plenty of them. I could do the same on the other side too (and I will) but feel free to question any one of the above examples below.

• A. 7.15 mins in - Clancy gets away with a throw to Joe Maher. Maher is tackled by Tullamore's number 8 and is then dispossessed. Ref gives a free in for 8's tackel. Point to Ferbane from the free - on another day the throw is called back or the tackle is not deemed a foul.
  B. Ferbane's 8th point - ref said Flynn was pulled back at 21.47. Looked in the very soft/wrong call category to me.
  C. Ferbane's 9th point - ref deemed it a free. Commentator called it a 'fine strip tackle'. It was 50 /50
  D. 33.34 Leon Fox drags Brazil to the ground after losing the ball. If he doesn't make the foul, Brazil slips a handpass over the head of the defender to Plunkett for a goal chance. Fox doesn't get a black card. Looked a black card all day. I don't think he got a yellow.
  E. Ferbane's 10th point - ref calls a free against Paul Mc Conway on Johnson. I don't think anyone could see a foul including the commentator and either of the players involved. I honestly think the ref gave the free because he might have missed something moments earlier out the field, so he gave that one instead. Watch it again and tell me if I am mistaken. 43.50 on the clock at that point.
  F. 47.28 Tullamore's 11th point - Egan is tackled from behind needlessly by number 28 when there are 3 players around him. It was borderline, but consistent with everything else the ref gave. Fox goes bananas banging the ball against his head 2 times. Tullamore do something similar for Ferbane's 13th point. Needless free with 4 players around the Ferbane attacker. Tullamore players go bananas with the decision too.
  G. Tullamore's 13th point wasn't a free.
  H. 63.40 Joe Maher gets a free that wasn't a free in the middle of the field. Would have been a huge turnover but Ferbane hold on. There are 2 borderline hard tackles in the next play that are not given. Tullamore break up and score point 15.
  I. Ferbane's 14th point - 50/50 call goes Ferbane's way. Free is slotted over.

[llkj]

Genuinely thought the ref had a poor game . The feeling amongst the Tullamore heads was he missed a stone wall peno in the first half and gave them easy frees . But in second half it was even enough

The only possible penalty incident I can recall is when the corner back was through on goal. Looked like he dropped the ball and then kind of stood on it, or kicked over the top of the ball. I am sure there was some contact, but didn't look a penalty to me watching it back on clubber.

[biffinbanner]

The 3 biggest most blatant incidents to.me were leon fox one which led to a tullamore point after Ferbane had possession. The non free to cian johnson late on. And cormac egans swan dive when he realised he was surrounded.there was no push from no 28 no way The rest of the incidents were evened out as happens in every game. But them 3 crucial calls led to the result being as it was.

[Anonymous1]

They get to play their home group games in OCP which shouldn't be allowed. If the above claim is true then the CB have a lot to answer for, should be easy enough to reject that type of stuff and if not then the other clubs need to kick up a fuss.

[Anonymous1]

Several points I'd like to make :

1. I don't like that most of the posters so far have focused on the referee and called into question his integrity (albeit mainly in a concieted way). Posters on this forum were doing the same thing for a previous knockout game also. Very poor form.
2. Watching the game on Clubber, the general consensus from the two commentators was one of 'the ref made some strange calls on both sides, which probably evened themselves out over the course of the afternoon'. Reading the paper online, Kevin Corrigan also had the same viewpoint. Coming on here, you'd swear that Ferbane were absolutely rode.
3. With that in mind, I took a look at the game again now. I decided to focus on times when Ferbane got a favourable call from the ref that directly led to a score. There were plenty of them. I could do the same on the other side too (and I will) but feel free to question any one of the above examples below.

• A. 7.15 mins in - Clancy gets away with a throw to Joe Maher. Maher is tackled by Tullamore's number 8 and is then dispossessed. Ref gives a free in for 8's tackel. Point to Ferbane from the free - on another day the throw is called back or the tackle is not deemed a foul.
  B. Ferbane's 8th point - ref said Flynn was pulled back at 21.47. Looked in the very soft/wrong call category to me.
  C. Ferbane's 9th point - ref deemed it a free. Commentator called it a 'fine strip tackle'. It was 50 /50
  D. 33.34 Leon Fox drags Brazil to the ground after losing the ball. If he doesn't make the foul, Brazil slips a handpass over the head of the defender to Plunkett for a goal chance. Fox doesn't get a black card. Looked a black card all day. I don't think he got a yellow.
  E. Ferbane's 10th point - ref calls a free against Paul Mc Conway on Johnson. I don't think anyone could see a foul including the commentator and either of the players involved. I honestly think the ref gave the free because he might have missed something moments earlier out the field, so he gave that one instead. Watch it again and tell me if I am mistaken. 43.50 on the clock at that point.
  F. 47.28 Tullamore's 11th point - Egan is tackled from behind needlessly by number 28 when there are 3 players around him. It was borderline, but consistent with everything else the ref gave. Fox goes bananas banging the ball against his head 2 times. Tullamore do something similar for Ferbane's 13th point. Needless free with 4 players around the Ferbane attacker. Tullamore players go bananas with the decision too.
  G. Tullamore's 13th point wasn't a free.
  H. 63.40 Joe Maher gets a free that wasn't a free in the middle of the field. Would have been a huge turnover but Ferbane hold on. There are 2 borderline hard tackles in the next play that are not given. Tullamore break up and score point 15.
  I. Ferbane's 14th point - 50/50 call goes Ferbane's way. Free is slotted over.

So you went back and watched the game but somehow glossed over the most egregious calls of all? Funny that.

As for the local media they’re never ever going to criticise a referee no matter what he does.

[Payperview1]

After reading Kevin Corrigan's report on the match, and for him to say the referee had a good game in general is a complete cop out.
I don't think anyone at the match yesterday would agree with that. To use the example of the line ball and compare that to the free given against Leon Fox as to how decisions even themselves out in games is ridiculous.
Most decisions you could argue for or against, but the Leon Fox one blatantly wrong and should have resulted in a black card for Tullamore. Can understand the frustration of ferbane over that as it clearly had a huge bearing on the result.
Congratulations to Tullamore. Answered a lot of critics yesterday in the 2nd half and with the age profile of the team and a lot being done right at underage are going to be the team to beat for a good few years.

[del]

I thought the ref had a poor game . I thought it was a stone wall peno on Daire Mcdaid in the first half and after looking at the replay on the recording I’m more convinced it was a peno . I think the incident with Leon over carrying was wrong too but the constant badgering of the ref by Leon may have played a part in this.
Ferbane are a seriously good team and there is huge respect between both teams they will contest the next few finals I’d imagine
Well done tho the Tullamore players and MGT team a super group of lads
It’s great times for Tullamore and with underage football teams winning too it’s gonna take a big effort to stop Tullamore dominating over the next 10 yrs

[Tar Man]

Referee was shocking. Also one of the Tullamore first half points was over the post - I was directly behind it. Umpire went for the flag way too soon and it drifted at the last second. And as for the Lineman flagging that the ball was out during the second half - come on!! Amateurish all round. The hand trip / black card offence was the key moment of the game.

On the plus side the referee in the Intermediate Final had a great game. He was on top of everything - there was an issue during the second half where the umpires couldn't decide on a point / wide - his positioning was excellent and he was able to direct his umpires to wave it wide. Also got the penalty & red card decisions spot on.

[Anonymous1]

Referee was shocking. Also one of the Tullamore first half points was over the post - I was directly behind it. Umpire went for the flag way too soon and it drifted at the last second. And as for the Lineman flagging that the ball was out during the second half - come on!! Amateurish all round. The hand trip / black card offence was the key moment of the game.

On the plus side the referee in the Intermediate Final had a great game. He was on top of everything - there was an issue during the second half where the umpires couldn't decide on a point / wide - his positioning was excellent and he was able to direct his umpires to wave it wide. Also got the penalty & red card decisions spot on.

Had forgotten about the Tullamore point in the first half that looked wide, I’d love to see it back to be sure but others have said so too.

Didn’t register with me that had Fox been given the free for Bourke’s hand trip that Bourke would’ve been black carded and as it transpired Bourke was the one who won the ball back and fed in McDaid for the go ahead score in injury time…

[Lone Shark]

I have to say, I'm uneasy with all this, it's completely the wrong focus after an outstanding game. It is entirely possible that all of the following things can be true simultaneously:

(1) 100%, it's not enough to just be impartial, one must be SEEN to be impartial. For that reason, it would be better if in the general case, referees with connections to clubs outside their own current membership, do not pick up the whistle for games involving that club. I appreciate that putting more restrictions on refereeing options is not ideal at a time when we could use more refs, but there are too many instances like this where a referee is needlessly the focus of the conversation after a game, and people perceive malice where there is no reason to believe that.

(2) That being said, I don't love the idea of an Offaly referee never getting to take charge of the Offaly senior final. This is their home county, it's the big day they grew up watching, they earn it, every bit as much as the players do. I appreciate the fact that some refs are restricted by who their home club is, in the sense that Kevin Williamson might be a long time waiting to get the chance to referee a county final, not because he's not good enough (he absolutely is), but because it's hard to imagine a scenario where Tullamore aren't in it. But I think that's the better situation than him taking charge of the Laois final and Seamus Mulhare coming over here.

(3) Refereeing calls do influence a game. To say otherwise is to be very disingenuous, and I hate this high-minded idea that you should always look back at the time your wing back missed a potential pass into a corner forward in the 11th minute as opposed to the four penalties given against your team in a one-point defeat drives me cracked. (I exaggerate for the sake of effect, but you get what I mean).

However, refereeing calls are also part of the game, just as much as the peculiar bounce of the ball that decided the intermediate final yesterday. It seems at times like there are people who expect absolute perfection from refs, more so than they would from David Clifford or Brian Fenton.

(4) The kind of forensic analysis of a referee's performance we've seen in this thread, with a view to only picking out calls that lean one way or another but not both, is grossly unfair. There isn't a footballer in Ireland who would come through that sort of investigation into their performance either. Moreover, this is a physical game with a poorly-defined tackle, and a culture of blaming a referee as opposed to a forward when the aforementioned forward buys a free.

(5) Honestly, I don't think Eamon O'Connor had a great game. But I don't for a second think that he was either consciously or subconsciously biased towards Tullamore. He made a few calls either way that didn't make sense, and the call against Leon for the equaliser stands out because of the timing, and the fact that it was two calls in one (the black card, and the pointed free). But overall, I would say that there were debatable decisions both ways, and to use an electoral term, I think any leaning one way or another fell within the margin of error.

(6) Comments about how one club was given a veto on who refereed the game are absolutely out of line, and unfair to all involved. If someone has any evidence of the fact that this happened, then please get in contact because it would be scandalous, a national news story, and would be grounds for every single member of the CCC to resign. It's because it's completely beyond the pale that I do not believe for a second that it happened, or even that it would be entertained, if Tullamore were so brazen as to suggest it. It's a shocking accusation against the Tullamore club and against the CCC, and indeed to the two referees involved as well.

[The Magpie]

What a great county final. It was certainly one of the best in recent years and for me probably should’ve ended in a draw. The momentum really did swing both ways many times and just when it looked like Ferbane had put Tullamore under real pressure (going 2 points up after around 56 minutes), it was Tullamore that scored 4 of the last 5 points.

Unfortunately, too many people are talking about the referee and that’s a shame because it was such a good, honest game with some brilliant performances. But it’s impossible to escape from the referee discussion, so I’ll start there.

I can say as an absolute neutral that I did leave O’Connor Park feeling like the referee had been a little bit kinder to Tullamore in this game. I also felt that Leon Fox seemed to come out on the wrong side of a number of decisions. It’s rare to feel that one player got a bit of a raw deal and while I haven’t watched a replay of the game, that was my feeling after the match. Despite this, I also felt that the referee got a lot right for an awful lot of the game. Unfortunately, it was late in the game where things started to get away from him a little bit. Some of the late decisions turned out to be poor ones (in both directions) and potentially decisive. As a related aside, I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen a critical appraisal of a referee in the local media. I can understand that the role of a referee is so difficult, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be honest about the role they play in a game. It’s too easy to say that “things balanced out over the 60 minutes”. Sometimes, things don’t balance out.

Also, on the integrity of the referee, I would not question that at all. And while I’m not defending other posters here, if they are citing any kind of relationship between the referee and the club, it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that a bias could exist. We’re all humans and a lot of bias feeling and decision making occurs without us even realizing it. I think Lone Shark may have previously suggested, it’s easier to avoid these types of problems with simple upfront solutions than to deal with them afterwards.

To the game itself, it was a real treat to have a throwback. I can’t remember being at a senior football match where the goalkeepers went long with so many kickouts. This meant the middle third of the park became the battleground for catching, breaking, etc and finding any way to win clean or dirty ball. Ultimately, the team that were on top in the middle were winning the game. Although Tullamore started well, driven hugely by the direct running of Cormac Egan, Ferbane’s dominance in the middle for a period of around 15 minutes saw them go from 0-4 0-2 behind to 0-9 0-4 ahead. There genuinely was a long period where Tullamore did not breach the halfway line in the second part of the first half, as Oisin Kelly dominated with his size and strength. Tullamore then grabbed the last score of the half to leave 4 points between the teams at half-time and while Ferbane had played with the benefit of the wind, this gap was probably unexpected.

Tullamore got moving quickly at the start of the second half, themselves starting to dominate in the middle and pretty much in all other parts of the pitch. Cormac Egan was prominent, as was Diarmuid Egan, who had been introduced as a late first-half substitute. John Furlong and Cillian Bourke also got stronger as the match went on. It took around 10-11 minutes for Tullamore to bring the score level at 0-9 points each. Thinking back, this was the period in the match where Ferbane needed to put something on the scoreboard. For quite a long period they seemed to be stuck on or around 10 points – something tells me, between the end of the first half and into the second half, Ferbane might have got a single point in around 20 minutes. In fact, having scored 0-9 in the first half, Ferbane would only score 5 points more in the game and I think 3 of those came after 54 minutes. In contrast, Tullamore scored 10 points in the second half and some of them were lovely scores (Daire McDaid and Diarmuid Egan to win it, John Furlong with one that nearly dipped into the net and possibly Nigel Bracken with a huge one).

Yet, despite their low scoring in the second half, Ferbane probably felt that they had one hand on the Dowling Cup at around 56 minutes. They had weathered the Tullamore storm and pushed ahead to a 0-13 0-11 lead, which was an unexpected swing back in their favor. After this, Ferbane only scored once more and that was really their only chance to do so. To their credit, Tullamore stuck to their gameplan and kicked 4 more points and while Ferbane were only beaten by a single point, by that stage in the game they needed a goal and nothing else. Their last free (at 2 points down), which in truth probably should’ve been a free in the other direction, was a chance to drop the ball in around the square and take their chances on a goal. With their size and physical advantage, I felt it was the best play. Joe Maher elected to take a point, which pretty much meant Ferbane had a minute to level and everything had to go their way. It didn’t.

Today and for a while, Ferbane will take very little heart from this match. But they’ll start the next championship year knowing that they have the measure of a very good Tullamore team and I hope we can expect some more great encounters between the two dominant teams in Offaly at the moment.

Tullamore have improved greatly from the team that was surprisingly beaten by Rhode 2 years ago. Back then, Mickey Brazil was the fulcrum of the team and most likely to break the line or tackle. Now, Tullamore have other players to use for that purpose. Cormac Egan stood out for me on the day as the best of those. A couple of years back in the County Final, hampered by rehabilitation from injury and probably also expectation, he didn’t look at all comfortable as the Tullamore target man. Now he looks really at ease as a ball carrier and tormentor who will also pop up with a score or two. If Tullamore can find that target man that they might have felt Cormac would become, they will become a very serious outfit. For now, the lack of a player like that is something that is likely to hamstring them in their Leinster campaign and keep Ferbane biting at their heels in Offaly.

One final note on the other talking point of the year. The championship structure really was a disaster. Aside from all the arguments about losers ending up in quarter finals, my real issue with the format was this: Tullamore only had to win 3 games to win this championship. A panel of guys has been together for 10 months and their football year happened in the space of (I think) 5 weeks and 3 games. This is bizarre.

And that was 2024.

[One Time]

I have to say, I'm uneasy with all this, it's completely the wrong focus after an outstanding game. It is entirely possible that all of the following things can be true simultaneously:

(1) 100%, it's not enough to just be impartial, one must be SEEN to be impartial. For that reason, it would be better if in the general case, referees with connections to clubs outside their own current membership, do not pick up the whistle for games involving that club. I appreciate that putting more restrictions on refereeing options is not ideal at a time when we could use more refs, but there are too many instances like this where a referee is needlessly the focus of the conversation after a game, and people perceive malice where there is no reason to believe that.

(2) That being said, I don't love the idea of an Offaly referee never getting to take charge of the Offaly senior final. This is their home county, it's the big day they grew up watching, they earn it, every bit as much as the players do. I appreciate the fact that some refs are restricted by who their home club is, in the sense that Kevin Williamson might be a long time waiting to get the chance to referee a county final, not because he's not good enough (he absolutely is), but because it's hard to imagine a scenario where Tullamore aren't in it. But I think that's the better situation than him taking charge of the Laois final and Seamus Mulhare coming over here.

(3) Refereeing calls do influence a game. To say otherwise is to be very disingenuous, and I hate this high-minded idea that you should always look back at the time your wing back missed a potential pass into a corner forward in the 11th minute as opposed to the four penalties given against your team in a one-point defeat drives me cracked. (I exaggerate for the sake of effect, but you get what I mean).

However, refereeing calls are also part of the game, just as much as the peculiar bounce of the ball that decided the intermediate final yesterday. It seems at times like there are people who expect absolute perfection from refs, more so than they would from David Clifford or Brian Fenton.

(4) The kind of forensic analysis of a referee's performance we've seen in this thread, with a view to only picking out calls that lean one way or another but not both, is grossly unfair. There isn't a footballer in Ireland who would come through that sort of investigation into their performance either. Moreover, this is a physical game with a poorly-defined tackle, and a culture of blaming a referee as opposed to a forward when the aforementioned forward buys a free.

(5) Honestly, I don't think Eamon O'Connor had a great game. But I don't for a second think that he was either consciously or subconsciously biased towards Tullamore. He made a few calls either way that didn't make sense, and the call against Leon for the equaliser stands out because of the timing, and the fact that it was two calls in one (the black card, and the pointed free). But overall, I would say that there were debatable decisions both ways, and to use an electoral term, I think any leaning one way or another fell within the margin of error.

(6) Comments about how one club was given a veto on who refereed the game are absolutely out of line, and unfair to all involved. If someone has any evidence of the fact that this happened, then please get in contact because it would be scandalous, a national news story, and would be grounds for every single member of the CCC to resign. It's because it's completely beyond the pale that I do not believe for a second that it happened, or even that it would be entertained, if Tullamore were so brazen as to suggest it. It's a shocking accusation against the Tullamore club and against the CCC, and indeed to the two referees involved as well.

Aside from your post, most of the others should be shown to the referee to read and decide if he wants to make a complaint to Gardai for slander/defamation as serious allegations being made against him here by anonymous posters.