Outside Managers

[Handball]

https://m.sundayworld.com/sport/columni ... 03892.html

Pat Spillane has it here that only ourselves and Galway have won football All Irelands under non native mangers (McGee & O’Mahony). Ours being the first.

I do believe that the 71,72 teams were under Westmeath guidance in Tom Gillooly so Pat may have wanted to scroll a bit further.

Our last Leinster came under Tommy Lyons of Mayo.

Another interesting point - all of our Hurling titles come from foreign MGMT, even having sacked a Tipp man for a Galway one in 98.

We seem to be the first county to have an outsider guide us to All Irelands, and the only to have done so in both codes.

We have a couple of Leinster titles under our own management in hurling, am I missing any?

Have there been successful Offaly managers go elsewhere? Pat Flanagan comes to mind albeit not hitting all Ireland heights.

[Lone Shark]

This is one of many instances where I can't help but put my head into my hands due to the lack of understanding of statistics, both from the writer, and the editor who allowed it to go through.

It is presumably correct that Offaly and Galway are the only two counties to win All-Irelands with non-native managers, I certainly can't think of any others off the top of my head. However the statistic is used in a "it's clearly better to have a native manager" kind of way - and that's patently not the case, or if it is, this single anecdotal piece of data doesn't prove it.

When you have a long standing record of success and a very deep pool of players and clubs, it's easy to have a policy of not going outside the county for managers. Kerry (football), Dublin (football), Kilkenny and Tipperary (hurling) and Cork (both) all keep this policy - but in counties like those, you'll invariably be able to pick from a reasonable selection of individuals who enjoyed success on the field, who played in teams that either won or contended for All-Irelands, and who have since gone on to enjoy more success on the sideline afterwards.

In a smaller county, there will be times where the pool of potential managers is simply too shallow, and there are no big fish swimming in it.

So by definition, the counties that are more likely to choose native managers, are the counties that are more likely to enjoy success - not because of the fact that they have a native manager, but because they are in an environment where success is likely.

Pat could just as easily infer that because a resident of Ireland is more likely to buy a raincoat than a resident of Mexico, therefore Mexican skin is more waterproof than Irish skin, when in actual fact, it is because the Irish person lives in an environment where rain is more likely.

A fairer statistical comparison would be to take individual counties, and compare how they do with native managers, versus how they do with outside managers, over a long period of time. That, of course, would require time and effort, and an appreciation of nuance and detail. So Pat won't be going down that road.

[SearingDrive]

https://m.sundayworld.com/sport/columni ... 03892.html

Pat Spillane has it here that only ourselves and Galway have won football All Irelands under non native mangers (McGee & O’Mahony). Ours being the first.

I do believe that the 71,72 teams were under Westmeath guidance in Tom Gillooly so Pat may have wanted to scroll a bit further.

Our last Leinster came under Tommy Lyons of Mayo.

Another interesting point - all of our Hurling titles come from foreign MGMT, even having sacked a Tipp man for a Galway one in 98.

We seem to be the first county to have an outsider guide us to All Irelands, and the only to have done so in both codes.

We have a couple of Leinster titles under our own management in hurling, am I missing any?

Have there been successful Offaly managers go elsewhere? Pat Flanagan comes to mind albeit not hitting all Ireland heights.

Fr. Gilhooley was a Westmeath native, serving as a curate in Tullamore. He was a very approachable man, who was able to relate to the players in a human way.

[Plain of the Herbs]

And yet while Fr G was a Westmeath native, he'd been in Tullamore for over a decade by 1971, was immersed in Offaly football (trained several successful minor football teams including 1964's). He was nearly more Offaly than Offaly themselves.

Then the bishop of Meath took him off us.

Fr. Gilhooley was a Westmeath native, serving as a curate in Tullamore. He was a very approachable man, who was able to relate to the players in a human way.

[jimbob17]

There have been some good external inter county managers over last number of years. I'd include John O Mahoney and Liam Kearns in those, RIP to both. I'd also include Malachy O Rourke, Kieran McGeeney Kildare and Ger Brennan / Mickley Harte Louth and maybe couple more you'd count on one hand. Most success comes from inside men, who hire in talented coaches and backroom teams - Padraig Joyce hiring in Cian O Neill, and Jack O Connor with Paddy Tally as recent examples!

Across that time there have been multiples of that number who were useless managers, who were only in it for their own ego, May not have been too sharp on football knowledge and did nothing in their roles in respective counties but filled their own pockets. - lots of bandits doing the circle. What you will notice with these is plenty putting themselves forward, associating with journalists to keep their name out there in off season. Even when they have no chance of getting a certain job, their journalist associates include them in speculation around these gigs. They generally don't last anywhere too long because they get shown up. And it isn't just football, it happens in hurling too!

[Fairplayalways]

a high profile Offaly man managing outside of Offaly and while unsucessful, Pat Joe Whelehan to Limerick the time (2003) stands out in my mind. Limerick were a basket case at the the time though, the 3 U21 winning teams producing oodles of talent but lifestyle and internal politics Pat Joe was never going to survive...Padraig Horan Managed Laois back in late 1990s..and Pat Delaney around 2001..unsucessful I know but still went on to manage...not the strangest thing ever for players not to go on and manage, look at Kilkenny, Michael Fennelly, Brendan Fennelly, Brian Cody of course, not too many either have gone on..

[hamstrings]

Joachim kelly wexford , brendan lowry westmeath , Michael duignan meath also

[jimbob17]

Our top four teams have outside managers for 2025. I'd safely say Mickey Harte will be de facto manager of footballers, while Gaway man Kelly remains with senior hurlers.

Highly likely that our next senior hurling manager will be outsider, ie Leo O Connor. It could be Johnny Kellys last year and certainly will be if we don't survive in Liam McCarthy with Leo waiting in the wings. Unusual to have two non natives with u20 teams though.

Mark Plunkett, a Laois native is due to take u20 football manager role next year, though he has had lots of involvement in Offaly through Tullamore club and played for Ofdaly himself etc.

Bringing Gerry Fahy back is interesting move. He has got mixed reviews since leaving Offaly in 2004 but has been involved in some successful teams in Galway. Plunketts trump card was probably the strength of his backroom team with lots of bases covered, even though i didnt hear of any other candidates. B Darby was involved this year, while Benny O Brien is a very good coach was with last years minors and will know younger players. P Kelly and P Gallagher were involved in CBS and through refereeing etc, will have good handle on best players out there.