Senior Hurling Championship

[flairgun]

Howya Lads,
As a Drumcullen man exiled in Boston, can someone explain to me the format for the remainder of the SHC?
According to Hoganstand, the winners of the playoff in Grp 3 between Shinrone & Rynaghs will go into the semis and the loser into the quarters.
Is that right?
Cos then that means Coolderry are only into a quarter final now?
That doesn't sound right to me looking at the groups, is the "weaker group" system gone?

Also, they said that the losers of the 3-way playoff in grp 1 go into the relegation playoffs, even though Shamrocks lost all their games.
What's the story with relegation then?
Cheers,
PS. Come on the Sash!

[Treasurer]

Yep, the weak group was done away with this year. There was an open draw among the three first placed teams for two semi final places, which went to Birr and Shinrone/Rynaghs, with Coolderry going to quarter finals, along with the three second placed teams.

Two of the fourth placed teams play each other, with the other fourth team playing one of the fifth teams (decided by open draw). The two winners are safe for next year and the two losers play the other two fifth place teams, with the two losers relegated.

[Plain of the Herbs]

The quarter final draw will be critical here. I presume it will be made when the sixth qualifier (K/K or Clareen) is known. So will the semi final draw.

Both Coolderry and 'Rynagh's would fancy their chances of a final appearance if they could avoid Birr in the semis. Lusmagh would avoid Birr should they advance, being from the same preliminary group and are unproven at the higher level though wouldn't fear any potential quarter final opponents. Shinrone would avoid 'Rynaghs but won't beat Coolderry (neighbours) or Birr. K/K (if they advance) would need to improve on their Coolderry display to reverse the verdict of last month, have never beaten 'Rynagh's at senior level and certainly won't beat Birr. If Clareen progress to a quarter final they would be favourites to beat Shinrone, have a 50:50 against Lusmagh and can't get Coolderry, so their hopes therefore would hinge on the draw.

Back in April prior to the first round I tipped Clareen to beat Coolderry, based on some vily veterans (K.K. & Billy D) remaining on. I didn't know they both had regraded to junior. Now they have rejoined the senior team, and with Kevin at full back, Joseph Bergin at centre back and a good mix of youth and experience in between, I think they are well capable topple K/K, especially if K/K persist with handpassing their way out of defence as they did throughout against Coolderry.

[redser]

As far as i know Shamrocks and Clara have drawn the short straw and will only get one chance in the relegation playoffs.

Kinnitty, Skenach, Tullamore and Killavilla will play in first round of games and the two losers play the above two.

Bit harsh of a set up for the two teams with only one chance and both are also going to be involded in senior football semi finals it would appear so they will more than likely have little or no hurling done.

Maybe a new system should be devised to give the dual clubs some chance.

[flairgun]

I'm not impressed by that system. Seems very convoluted and there's no clear reward for success (or punishment for failure).
I really think the senior grade needs to be reduced to at most 12 teams, maybe 10. Apart from removing a few teams who have no business being senior anyway, it would allow easier configuration of the groups and teams would know exactly what they have to do at the start of the year.

[doobane man]

Shamrocks and Clara didn't draw the short straw. They finished bottom of their groups and the way to avoid it was to way a couple of games. The need to accomodate dual clubs is outweighed by the need to have a competitive Senior Hurling Championship - and that will be further progressed this year with 2 teams relegated and no team promoted from Intermediate (K/K winning that grade and being senior already)

[doobane man]

Sorry should read "win a couple of games"
Flargun wrote "Seems very convoluted and there's no clear reward for success (or punishment for failure"
Surely relegation is the punishment for failure with the added safeguard of a second chance in case one group is very strong and its bottom team better than those in a weaker group!

[Treasurer]

I suppose they drew the short straw in that they didn't get the extra chance that Skenagh got.

I think we should just stick with the bottom 3 teams being in relegation play offs though, having 40% of your teams in the relegation zone seems a bit excessive.

Actually, I'd like to see the whole championship restructured based on the Kilkenny model where group stages are on league basis, with everyone going through to knockout stages, depending on where they finish in the group, ie first and second placed teams go straight to quarter finals, remaining eight play knockout round, with four winners going to quarter finals.

It keeps all teams interested right down to the last game of the group and it also gives every team (and supporters) that one big do or die knockout game.

[doobane man]

Couldn't agree more. Way to go.
Might even get a seconder at county board meeting.
It definitely has its merits and would certainly overcome the silly situation that currently sees Tullamore and yourselves getting ready to face each other for the third time, in the knowledge that defeat probably means just an extra game.

[Plain of the Herbs]

The race for the senior hurling championship enters the last six in Banagher on Saturday evening next where the quarter finals will be played out. Kilcormac-Killoughey would be expected to advance at Shinrone’s expense while Coolderry will start as favourites when they face Lusmagh.

Despite reaching the semi-final stage last year it’s difficult to see Shinrone having either the hurling or the physical strength to overcome K/K, who appear to have rediscovered some form with playoff wins over Kinnitty and Clareen. The match practice gained from those two outings will also be of major assistance as they have restructured the spine of their team since going down to Coolderry last month. Shinrone’s most recent outing was against St. Rynagh’s, and while it wasn’t a knock-out match per se, it’s difficult for a club team to recover from the blow of seeing such a big lead overturned in such a short timespan as happened last time out. K/K to advance to another semi final.

Whilst I’m looking at the first quarter final with red-tinted glasses, I feel this has the makings of a cracker. Lusmagh won’t want for spirit and most are good strikers who will play stylish, direct Offaly type hurling. A shortage of match practice will be an issue for both sides. Coolderrry played three of their four group matches before play was suspended for the summer inter-county season, so they’ve only hurled K/K since the resumption. Lusmagh have had two championship ties, a four point win over Killavilla and a heavy defeat of Clara which was only noteworthy for being Lusmagh’s biggest ever winning margin in senior championship hurling.

Lusmagh have faced Coolderry twice in recent years. They gave Coolderry a good run for 45 minutes or so in 2003 before Coolderry’s extra sharpness proved vital. In 2004, Lusmagh led for long periods before being hauled in with a flurry of late Coolderry scores putting a gloss on the scoreboard for the green and white. The one recurring theme of those two encounters was that Lusmagh have the hurlers who can hurl the Coolderry dangermen. Historically, Lusmagh’s record against Coolderry is not good, with only two wins over the Oakmen in senior championship hurling – first round wins in 1983 and 1989. This won’t be an issue for the current team though.

The shorter Banagher pitch will be a help to Coolderry who, against K/K at any rate, tried to bypass their midfield and half-forwards by driving their own puck-out directly to full forward Joe Brady who tended to break the ball for his corner forwards. In open play, their right half forward tended to go across field leaving acres of space for Brian Carroll to exploit. For Lusmagh, Coolderry resident John Kelly - a seasoned full back at this stage, will not want for strength against Brady.

Last year, Coolderry struggled at this stage against a game Belmont side with a fortuitous goal at the three-quarter stage swinging the issue their way. Lusmagh, meanwhile got the ‘draw from hell’ against Birr. Coolderry will obviously be fancied to advance. They are, after all, championship contenders, and would be disappointed with their season if they weren’t taking Sean Robbins out the N52 on the first Sunday in October. However, if the underdogs can harness the renowned Lusmagh spirit, an interesting hour’s hurling could be in store.

[flairgun]

The Kilkenny system is an attractive one, no doubt, certainly better than the current situation.
Doobane Man, my point is that teams should know at the start of the year exactly what they have to do to reach a semi or quarter or avoid relegation, whichever the case may be.
A system that sees a team top their group but still rely on the luck of the draw seems flawed to me. If a team finished 1st in their group, they should be rewarded the same as other teams finishing first, and the same for last place teams.

[Lone Shark]

I think the problem is that we're a bit transitional at the moment with 15 teams. 7/8 teams to a group would be too many, while 4 to a group would be very few, particularly with 3 teams in one group.

Maybe three group winners going into the semis, with the three runners up all playing off for one place might have been better? At least the team that got there would be well sharpened up and might have been more competitive.

[Plain of the Herbs]

I told ye it would be a cracker!

So near and yet so far for Lusmagh against Coolderry. Despite the concession of an early goal Lusmagh gave an exhibition of tenacious, skillful hurling together with the spirit for which the are renowned to lead by 4 early in the second half. Coolderry only took the lead in the 52nd minute as Lusmagh’s legs gave way in the closing stages. Lusmagh’s defence was outstanding as a unit where the more experienced Coolderrymen were forced into a number of wides. The forwards also defended when required and took some delightful scores, most notably during the first 30 minutes.

So encouragement for next year for the men in red. As Lone Shark said during the summer “it’s not the despair that’s hard to deal with – it’s the hope”

Following on from that, Shinrone had no answer to Kilcormac-Killoughey where the result was never in doubt.