The Laois Debacle - the aftermath

[Bord na Mona man]

4) I know I said I wasn't going to write an essay, but I'm on a roll now. Talking is the best therapy . Micko is a wonderful, tactically adept manager, with a flair for the innate cuteness that seperates him from many other managers. All of that is admirable and a real asset to Laois. On the other side of the coin however, and I have said this before so this is not sour grapes, is that part of the legacy he will leave to the game he loves is the introduction, or at least the encouragement, of Diving, both for frees and to draw cards, and the feigning of injury. At least twice yesterday Laois players fell to the ground holding their faces when there was no need to, as well as countless falls when soloing to draw frees. I do not begrudge Laois at all, we were so abject that there was only one winner from a long way out, but this stuff annoys me. Laois have never, ever, ever been like that. A Laois man will stand toe to toe with you all day, but since Micko moved in there, this has crept into their game. He did the same thing with Kildare, and I know that there are many people who I've spoken to about this, players and non-players who have the same impression. The next interview Micko does should contain a question about this, just to see him try to explain himself.

I don't have much time for O'Dwyer. The introduction of diving and the "not being out of pocket" (as the euphemism goes) are two traits I don't like about him.

He is a clever fellow though. He has cultivated the cute old rogue image, where people are not going to go head to head with him. No one is going to challenge him about the diving, because they are too busy fawning over him.

O'Dwyer in today's paper:
When told his side had limited Offaly to a point in the second half, he quipped: "I thought we might have held them scoreless!"

I think that kind of remark is the kind of sneery, condescending stuff that he continually comes out with, but nobody picks up on.

That's no reflection on Leix btw. There were well worth their win and would have beaten us regardless of who was in charge. I'd still not like O'Dwyer, even if he was managing Offaly.

[Tom]

Think someone is still a bit bitter bout '82?

[OffalyManAway]

I agree with BnM man about Dwyer. He is a sneery, snide manager, the sort Offaly does not need.

Lone Shark, I stick by my comments about Mac yesterday (your defenses of him are by now legendary!), "barely above average". He hand passed the ball straight to Laois men a couple of times yesterday, then put his hands on his head in frustration before scurrying for 4 or 5 steps as if attempting to put in a tackle, gave up, and let Laois off up the field to create more havoc. Not good enough. On the other hand, he kicked a couple of lovely points.

[Sydthebeat]

can anyone tell me why there was no lust for revenge for last years mugging!!

i was so dissapointed with the lack of enthusaism and interest shown by both the team and the supporters yesterday...
there was definately 10 laois to every 1 offaly supporter...!!
thats not good enough with so much at stake... a relatively soft match v mayo in the All Ireland Quarter finals....

being a Portarlington man i was, to put it simply, disgusted by the lack of fight in Offaly yesterday... going in at 5 - 3 down at half time i thought there might be a big second half fight, but no, they just rolled over...

maybe it was the drinking?, maybe the qualifiers hold no interest to them? maybe they actually tried their best but really are that bad!!? (i dont think so!!)

but i will say that road to the leinster final was brilliant, but they now need to build on that... they need to realise that that young dublin team will probably rule leinster for the next few years so the qualifiers might be the only route available so they need to give it more respect....

[DD]

McManus was excellant- doesnt wash at all.....if you watch the video you will see that one of laois best players was tom kelly...mc manus kicked 3 points end of story.didnt do what he was meant to do though

He kicked three points, got on the ball regularly, won hard 50/50 stuff, covered a lot of ground and generally kept fighting like a dog long after heads dropped all round him. He never lost the head and tried to win it by himself, instead kept giving ball in as he was instructed to do. Kelly got on the ball a fair bit, but he is a good player, and certainly McManus got the better of that battle. However he was the only forward that could claim that.

I would normally be a big critic of McManus but he had his best game of the championship yesterday. That said Tom Kelly is very much "a play and let play" type centre back so he was never going to try and man mark Mcmanus. I thought Kelly became more influential as the game went on and he came off 50/50 in the duel with Mcmanus.
Most of the backs played well considering they were under pressure for nearly the entire 70 minutes. Midfield won very little ball and when they did get it they made poor use of it. Of the forwards Paschal and Niall tried hard but nothing went right for them.
What about Kelly though? The man is a raving lunatic and was lucky not to cost us at least two goals.
Kilmurray proved once and for all how useless he is tactically - his motto seems to be "change nothing, it will eventually come right!"

[Lone Shark]

On a variety of points .....

(1) - O'Dwyer - I really don't like the man or the way he's given a free ride either, however to even suggest asking him any tough questions would not go down well. Between those who'd think you were disrespecting his achievements and those who'd say you were picking on an old man, you wouldn't get thanked for doing it if you were an interviewer. But certainly, I'd hate to see him let near the Offaly job. It's all moot anyway - Stephen Darby clearly deserves a shot, if he wants it, so you would assume the job will be his.

(2) McManus - he did give away a few passes, but bearing in mind the forward line confusion that was ahead of him, it was to be expected, and his successful pass ratio certainly was way ahead of that of Kelleghan or Daly, both supposedly better ball players than him. He's not really a playmaker, but has brought that into his game. It's because he's not the most naturally gifted player ever that I have so much respect for the man. Over the course of a season he's usually one of our top three players despite being far from one of the most skilled. He also digs in in no uncertain fashion when things are going badly, and the kind of scutchings that we would have taken yesterday or in Parnell in March without him are not to be thought of.

(3) Podge did have one hairy moment alright, but in general I thought he had cut a lot of that out this year, so I wouldn't hang him yet.

(4) I'm not sure about lust for revenge, but I do think that players were a little contained yesterday. In saying that, if you have accumulated four red cards in four games as a team, that will have an effect. Sullivan, Rafferty, Coughlan and Slattery would all be among our hardest hitters, and they all got yellow cards, so perhaps the wings were clipped in that regard.

(5) Kilmurray must go. Now.

[Tom]

(5) Kilmurray must go. Now.

Agreed!

[azoffaly]

1) - O'Dwyer - I really don't like the man or the way he's given a free ride either, however to even suggest asking him any tough questions would not go down well. Between those who'd think you were disrespecting his achievements and those who'd say you were picking on an old man, you wouldn't get thanked for doing it if you were an interviewer.

You mightn't get thanked, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. That's a lot of the problem with Irish journalism, the same old shite is trotted out time after time. Maybe a certain Offaly Independent columnist could have a go in the next article?

(2) McManus - he did give away a few passes, but bearing in mind the forward line confusion that was ahead of him, it was to be expected, and his successful pass ratio certainly was way ahead of that of Kelleghan or Daly, both supposedly better ball players than him. He's not really a playmaker, but has brought that into his game. It's because he's not the most naturally gifted player ever that I have so much respect for the man. Over the course of a season he's usually one of our top three players despite being far from one of the most skilled. He also digs in in no uncertain fashion when things are going badly, and the kind of scutchings that we would have taken yesterday or in Parnell in March without him are not to be thought of.

Agree 100%. There isn't a bigger hearted player in Ireland in my view. When Clancy got the goal for Laois yesterday, a lot of Offaly heads went into hands. Maccer was immediately encouraging those within earshot.

(3) Podge did have one hairy moment alright, but in general I thought he had cut a lot of that out this year, so I wouldn't hang him yet.

hmmmm. I think the knock on Podge Kelly has always been that he is inclined to do crazy things at inopportune times. That is unfortunately still a part of his game. The big plus for him is his kickouts, but he has obviously been told to try and vary them due to our travails in midfield. That means he is kicking some out over the sideline, which is soul-destroying. If only Kevin Meehan could kick the ball accurately, or long, he'd be a safer bet I think.

(4) I'm not sure about lust for revenge, but I do think that players were a little contained yesterday. In saying that, if you have accumulated four red cards in four games as a team, that will have an effect. Sullivan, Rafferty, Coughlan and Slattery would all be among our hardest hitters, and they all got yellow cards, so perhaps the wings were clipped in that regard.

Obviously the cards had an effect, but I think Offaly were severly handicapped from the start with the way we lined up. This malaise and uncertainty spread through the team. In the first half we tackled and dispossessed very well, but we were doing absolutely nothing with the ball, and the same pattern replicated itself in the second. I agree there was something lacking, we were a bit flat, but I really think that had more to do with us not having any real direction, rather than not being up for the game.

(5) Kilmurray must go. Now.

I second that emotion. But I wouldn't bring in Stephen Darby. I'd try John O'Mahoney. He might be more willing to step in now, and everyone has been fairly impressed with Offaly up to yesterday. They are a team that will win a Leinster in the near future, with proper guidance. Lads like O'Mahoney are attracted by teams like that. Paidi is another where that would be grist to his mill.

[turk]

Ahh well,

we taught that coman goggins a lesson - he'll think twice before going down easy next time

[the Untouchable]

I think the biggest mistake Kilmurray made this year was bringing back Mark Daly....when he should have brought back James Grennan!!! Mark Daly was never going to be the answer to our midfield problems & yesterday he just didn't want to know about it!!! Granted in Quigley & Clancy Laois have a fantastic midfield pairing but Offaly didn't even contest the majority of the kickouts!!! At least with James Grennan he's a terrific fielder of a ball & would have added much needed physicality to the Offaly team...because very few put themselves around better than James Grennan did.

In fairness while I would never have been Kilmurrays biggest fan I can't see the next manager to come along having a whole lot more luck because the reality is that there isn't exactly a host of top class footballers still waiting to be brought in to the panel, & I think what the Leinster Final & yesterdays matches have proven to us is that the current crop of players just aren't good enough. The biggest task facing the next manager will be to keep the likes of Podge, Froggy, Quinny & Mac going for another year because they'll all have done 10 years of hard training & now that their all pushing 30 they may decide to call it a day....I'm sure Mac won't but the other 3 lads might just decide enoughs enough.

[Lone Shark]

In terms of retirements, unless McManus goes, I think the time will be right for the lads to exit stage left should they choose to do so. Froggy and Quinn have both been great players, but this year proved to me that the pace of intercounty is a bit much for them - Froggy was the weakest link in that back line unit for me yesterday, giving the ball away a few times and generally only surviving because Beano has no pace either. Quinn I've said all along gets burned off if he plays seventy minutes, for me it's impact sub only with him - and you could completely understand if a player of his age decides six months of hard training is too much to be an impact sub next June.

I do think that given a little bit of trust, the situation is not all that bleak. Leonard Mooney to me was growing into a county player, and then was jettisoned after his best game yet. Him, James Coughlan, Damien Hunt, David Egan, these are all potential wing forwards next year if they were to bulk up over the winter and get a run of form going.

Midfield is an issue, and it seems like it will continue to be. But an Autumn of club football looms, and who's to say that Keane mightn't grow into the fielder we're hoping, or that Bracken might keep getting taller and tougher? Failing that, we probably should just try to get this guy home ..... http://www.britball.com/features/patburke0309.html (I know it says he's a Dub, but three years in Tullamore, that has to be good enough??)

As regards managers, I'd love to get O'Mahony if I thought he'd come for normal expenses - what are the chances of that though? If he really wants the job and isn't looking to make a killing off of it, then that's okay - but I'll believe it when I see it.

[DD]

Neither Daly nor Grennan are the answer - both were very good players but neither them are capable of delivering in midfield at inter county level anymore. There are no obvious candidates coming through that you expect to compete with the Clancys, Whelans & Earlys of this world so we are going to have to look at changing our tactics to suit.
There is no point in Kelly continually kicking the ball to midfield in hope we are somehow going catch clean ball against top quality opposition. We have to look at the example set by Dublin where there is always a man free to receive the kickout.
This is a tactic we could not have adapted to in mid championship season but we can work on for next year. The fitness levels need to be very high for players to constantly make themselves available and the kicking has to be very accurate but it is something that can be worked on.

[Bord na Mona man]

One tall man would do us.
Ronan McGarrity for Mayo is a basketball player who recently converted to football.
Did ye see Clancy trying to solo the ball yesterday? Booting it a few feet higher than his head and snapping it back into his grasp. Liam McHale used to fall over himself if he tried to solo on the move.

The point I'm making is that a midfield catcher doesn't need to be blessed with all round ability. Just catch it and offload to someone who can use it. It's only when you have no one to field and the opposition are winning uncontested ball that the value of this kind of player becomes obvious.
Can we unearth this kind of player in Offaly?

At the moment there are players like James Keane, Thomas Coughlan, James Rafferty, Ross Connor, Padraig Bracken or maybe Conor Mahon in a couple of years. Most of them are not natural midfielders though.

Who else could be in the frame?

[azoffaly]

TheManFromFerbane, get home quickly.

Kilmurray will have to go as well though

[DD]

One tall man would do us.
Ronan McGarrity for Mayo is a basketball player who recently converted to football.
Did ye see Clancy trying to solo the ball yesterday? Booting it a few feet higher than his head and snapping it back into his grasp. Liam McHale used to fall over himself if he tried to solo on the move.

The point I'm making is that a midfield catcher doesn't need to be blessed with all round ability. Just catch it and offload to someone who can use it. It's only when you have no one to field and the opposition are winning uncontested ball that the value of this kind of player becomes obvious.
Can we unearth this kind of player in Offaly?

At the moment there are players like James Keane, Thomas Coughlan, James Rafferty, Ross Connor, Padraig Bracken or maybe Conor Mahon in a couple of years. Most of them are not natural midfielders though.

Who else could be in the frame?

I think you're being harsh on all of the players (non Offaly) you mentioned above. Clancy took his goal well and he is always worth a point or two from play in any match, McHale was a class footballer and while McGarrity is a bit raw he is certainly more than a "catch it and offload" player.