2010 Hurling championship - Where does it leave Offaly

[Bord na Mona man]

Tipperary's win may mark the end of an era for this Kilkenny team.
They will no doubt be back for revenge next year and the year after, but there are bound to be changes afoot.
With all the talk of deep panels and conveyor belts, Kilkenny haven't evolved hugely since they beat Cork in 2006. I think the sudden end of such a prolonged run is an obvious time for players and management to take stock. Perhaps there will be a few years when Kilkenny won't be as all conquering, especially if there is surgery being done.

The reason I'm focussing on Kilkenny is because they are the one side that I suspect Offaly have developed a mental block towards.
Tipperary certainly didn't play with any inhibitions against them, this year or last. However they've had the safety of hiding out in Munster in their weaker years and not being exposed to repeated and ritualistic trimmings from the Cats. Sadly Offaly have been continually burned at all grades.

Were an improving Offaly to play a less settled Kilkenny side in the Leinster championship, could we expect a real hammer and tongs contest? Kilkenny no doubt being favoured, but Offaly at their throats for 70 minutes? Are Offaly moving towards being geared up for this?

For the Offaly-Galway matches this year, the much-bandied phrase was of Offaly not "fearing" Galway. Offaly's play and the scoreboard reflected this, but are we in dangerous territory where Offaly play the colour of the jersey in front and not the 15 hurlers? By implication, did Offaly "fear" Tipperary when there was no fighting talk in the same vein. Did Offaly's approach and demeanour against Tipp betray a sense of pre-destiny.

These sort of self fulfilling prophesies could be done without and this is why I worry about the baggage Offaly may have picked up when it comes to Kilkenny. We’re approaching a point where the graphs of Offaly and Kilkenny should get closer than they’ve been for about a decade and I’d love Offaly to be squaring up to them unhindered by self doubt.

Next year and beyond Tipperary may be the team to beat. However they’ll find it hard to impose the sort of dominance that Kilkenny enjoyed. They played the sort of high tempo hurling yesterday that is very hard to sustain game-on-game, never mind year-on-year. Were they properly ready for Cork last May, they could have been out of petrol by September.

In the past, teams with a young age profile struggled to retain form and focus. In 1999 Cork’s All Ireland winning kids were tipped to dominate the game for the next decade. In 2001 Tipperary’s young side were going to do the same. It never happened.
In the modern era, Kilkenny and Cork eventually managed back-to-back All Irelands when the average age and collective maturity of their sides increased. Tipperary may buck this trend, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

If there is a state of flux ahead, then Offaly aren’t that badly placed.
The hierarchy is probably something like:
Tier 1 Kilkenny and Tipperary.
Tier 2 Waterford, Cork and Galway.
Tier 3 Offaly, Dublin, Clare, Limerick and Wexford (maybe Antrim at a push).

How far are Offaly away from being competitive with T1 sides, sometimes beating T2 sides and usually beating T3 sides?

P.S. Note that after the 2004 All Ireland, I also thought Kilkenny needed to rebuild and that Offaly were starting to show progress.
2005 Leinster Championship – Kilkenny 6-28 Offaly 0-15

[bracknaghboy]

The reason I'm focussing on Kilkenny is because they are the one side that I suspect Offaly have developed a mental block towards.

The Offaly hurlers have developed a mental block towards all the top teams. People may argue that there is no fear of Galway....well we had 2 chances this year and couldn't finish them off. Kikenny probably make us numb with the thoughts of playing them.
This is why Offaly need a new manager who can lift this burden from the players. Joe Dooley has had 3 years and failed to do this. Theres little to suggest a 4th year would see him make this team believe they can beat the top teams. You are right BNM Man we are probably going to enter a period where Offaly should be closer to Kilkenny than any other time in the last 10yrs but believe me if this happens the window of opportunity will be brief and if we are not in the right shape to take advantage then we could dissappear into oblivion altogether. Remember our underage teams are in a dreadful state so we will only be picking up one or 2 good players here or there (the Kilkenny and Tipp conveyer belts are well oiled for the years ahead in that regard). Bottom line new manager needed. Is it just me or are we crazy to be heading into the knockout stages of the club hurling championship and no official manager in place??

[black and red exile]

Right now and I would imagine for the next 4 or 5 years at least, the big 3 of Tipp, KK, Cork along with Galway will all go at each other full throttle to be kings of the hurling landscape. Since 1999 the big 3 have a stranglehold on Liam McCarthy and at the moment Galway look to be the only big threat to break them up, Waterford, Dublin, Offaly, Limerick, Clare,Wexford and Antrim are only making up the numbers, with the underage talent in Dublin and Clare at the moment surely in the not too distant future they will make a serious breakthrough and be a major worry for the top 4 but there are no guarantees of this happening, all we have to do is look at the laois minor football teams of the nineties that found the step up to senior level too much.
Next year the hurling championship will be the most interesting in years, yesterday proved that KK are only human and are very beatable, Cork and Galway will relish 2011 coming around as they will believe that they are quite capable of beating KK and Tipp on any given day and as for Offaly it's hard to see us going any further under Joe Dooley, the man gave 100 per cent and will always be counted as one of our great heroes but I just can't get that interview after the Tipp game out of my head when he seemed so relieved that we didn't get a mother and Father of a hiding and the only reason for that not happening was because Tipp just saw Offaly as an inconvenience that had to be just got out of the way without any fuss, let's be honest if they really opened up that day in Portlaoise it would have been unbearable

[Plain of the Herbs]

Briefly, I can't see what Galway have done to warrant mention as potential All-Ireland winners. I really can't.

It's hard to know where Offaly stand. I didn't think so at the time, but looking back I think Offaly needed to blow Limerick away in the aftermath of coming up short to Galway. Just to make a statement. Likewise I now think they needed to hold out for the win against Tipperary in the NHL in Tullamore though it didn't bother me at the time.

One thing on Offaly v Tipperary - don't underestimate the knock-on effect of the loss of defenders Michael Verney and Stephen Egan to injury. Had either been available, Rory Hanniffy would probably not have been deployed at centre-back and would have been at midfield or in attack.

Shane Dooley has been the most improved player on the team and James Rigney announced himself, as did James Dempsey. Centre half-forward remains a problem though. Tony Óg Regan suited Joe Brady (John Lee may not, but that's Galway's business) but Conor O'Mahony is an entirely different hurler to Regan. While Joseph Bergin does his best hurling at full-forward, I do think he is the best candidate for centre-forward come summertime.

Finally, Offaly have traditionally did best when they had the bare fifteen, sometimes less. Throughout the Noughties they've had over 20 hurlers at a time of equal standard and struggled to blend a team. Thus year I think they had about thirteen, so maybe they're on the right road in that respect.

All for another day.

[turk]

Great posts on this thread. I think the tier 2 teams are well within striking range - Cork are in need of new blood and are weaker at underage than in previous years. Waterford are going into their third year with Davy Fitz - it's hard for managers to keep it going with that style into a third year. Galway will do nothing under McIntyre.



But are Offaly equipped to capatalise on this change on the "landscape"?

Probably not at present but a good shake up could change the path of the future!!

[black and red exile]

I think most people would surely agree that Galway are the No 3 team in the country right, don't forget they had Tipp on the ropes in the quarter final and should have closed the deal but didn't, it was the same against Waterford in Thurles last year, they were in total control until the last few minutes but again didn't deliver the knockout blow. As John McIntyre said on UP FOR THE GAME on Saturday night ''Galway are going to have to learn how to close out games in the dying minutes''and they will have to learn fast in big championship games, with the bitter experience of the last couple of years they will surely of learned their lessons about finishing teame off and next year will be very interesting, they are league champions, true they did flop big time in the leinster final bit they are far better than that. In my opinion 2011 will be looked forward to with much more excitement with KK shown up as human beings with 2 legs and 2 arms and not some superhuman out of this world superbeings that some eejits of the media would lead us to believe.

[Plain of the Herbs]

John McIntyre has had two years to solve the conundrum that is Galway hurling. By the sounds of that, he doesn’t know what the problems are, never mind begin to solve them.

In case anyone thinks Galway are the great championship pretenders, here’s their record in the championship since 2006:

2006: Beat Laois & Westmeath, lost to Waterford and Kilkenny in AIQF;
2007: Beat Laois & Antrim, lost to Clare & Kilkenny in AIQF;
2008: Beat Antrim & Laois, lost to Cork in qualifier;
2009: Beat Laois, lost to Kilkenny, beat Clare & Cork, lost to Waterford in AIQF;
2010: Beat Wexford, drew with Offaly winning the replay, lost to Kilkenny & Tipperary in AIQF.

Not exactly the stuff of legends, I think you’ll agree. Their achievements in that time are restricted to beating Clare (fighting with management), Cork (back from the picket line) and Wexford. That’s not much better than what Offaly have achieved in the same period.

Offaly saw Galway at first hand twice this year. Galway had a poor half-back line, a poor half-forward line (neither were good in the air), and their full-back line was exposed by Offaly’s long ball in to Bergin & Dooley. This year Joe Canning was well marked by Keith Rossiter & David Kenny and whoever Kilkenny and Tipperary put on him, and in the Leinster final he was reduced to showboating, pointing a line-ball with the last puck when they were 8 points down, something unprecedented in hurling.

Wishful thinking doesn't win All-Irelands. There’s no quick-fix solution and they’re not going to become All-Ireland contenders by merely throwing in the next 19 year-old whizz-kid.

Never mind their league performances. That’s winter hurling. This year’s NHL final was played at a slow pace (as most NHL finals are), and Cork pulled up with 20 minutes still to go. Club hurling is poor in Galway too – Loughrea are the second-best club in the county and they’re poor. And Athenry, who once vied with Birr at the pinnacle of Club hurling, have ne’er a countyman are playing off for relegation later this month.

As for their underage success – they’ve got a big hurling population. They’ve 20 Senior hurling clubs and 16 or 17 Intermediate ones, and very few of those play any football (for comparison, Kilkenny have 42). That means each club need provide a County Minor hurler every two years. The weakest 5 on any Galway minor team will be far stronger than any other county bar probably Kilkenny, Cork and Tipperary. Only the stars on those teams will go on to hurl senior though.

And most hurling people of my acquaintance from East Galway agree with me, in case ye think this is the rant of someone from a neighbouring club. Yes, I’m a Galway-sceptic but it’s an objective assessment - Galway hurling has some serious problems to address.