IHC

[joe bloggs]

Big shock yesterday in the IHC as the championship favourites, Drumcullen fell to KK. Having come down from the senior grade this is a big blow for the sash who had put in a big effort this year in order to regain top flight status. Having had some good results in Division 1 in the league they will be very dissapointed.
So who will take over the favorites mantle?
Birr , KK and Rynaghs would all have a good claim going on results so far, but all three have the potential to loose players to the senior ranks.
Will Ballinamere be finally able to succeed or can Brosna Gaels or Clara make it through.
There should be some interesting fixtures ahead in a championship that could be anyone's

[Lone Shark]

That is very bad news for Drumcullen - it'll only get harder and harder with every year that they spend at the intermediate grade. They would have won a lot of neutral support with the way they accepted last year's relegation even though they could very easily have taken a more belligerent route. They tried to regain their status on the field and it didn't happen.

Birr look like the leading candidates to me, and I don't know that they're likely to lose too many players to senior. I'd make them favourites, with Ballinamere still poised for a run. Brosna Gaels look decent too, and one suspects that their fate is largely dependent on the footballing performances of Erin Rovers and Doon. It'll be difficult for them to put together a run if these clubs are still involved for another few weeks, but equally if Doon and erin Rovers didn't make it past the quarter final, you'd have a very strong panel focussing on hurling only.

The question also must be asked is what happens to the senior championship if we do have a winner out of Birr/Rynaghs/KK. If we assume that Ballyskenach are the ones to go down - and right now it would be hard to see anything else happening - then do they play next year with eleven? Do Ballyskenach (or whoever) just stay up if one of these three win the IHC? You'd have to assume that on current form, Ballyskenach wouldn't even want to stay senior - there's no way lads would stay on for another year of beatings like this.

By rights we should be looking at a championship of ten teams at senior really, since it would be easier to run off in the new structure, but the whole "turkeys voting for Christmas" thing comes up again.

[TheManFromFerbane]

For someone who's out of the loop on these things what happened Drumcullen?

[Plain of the Herbs]

They were beaten by six points by Kilcormac intermediates yesterday morning and are out. Previously they drew with Birr’s intermediates and beaten Kinnitty intermediates, though having been level at half time.

Will be difficult for them now, given that it will be hard for them to expect players to travel home for training etc. when lads can transfer elsewhere. Not that they’ve got a whole pile of talent anyway. They don’t have the numbers for a minor team and only the odd fella (Dermot Gath last year) can get on the ’Rynagh’s minor team, and only one (Joseph Troy, I think) was on the K/K under 21’s last year.

Discipline has cost them on the field for as long as I’ve been watching them, and they’ve had only 2 county seniors since Paddy Molloy finished up – Pat Fleury & Conor Gath. That’s 2 in almost forty years! They last won the county title in 1960 when they beat Shinrone by one point (apparently John Dowling rode Shinrone out of it), and haven’t reached a semi-final in at least 30 years. Then again, while they’ve won 17 county titles, they won 7 in a period in the 1920’s (I think) and seven more in a ten year period between 1950 and 1960, so presumably they had 2 golden generations those times like alot of rural teams would tend to have.

For someone who's out of the loop on these things what happened Drumcullen?

[TheManFromFerbane]

Cheers POTH but I'm more specifically talking about this?

They would have won a lot of neutral support with the way they accepted last year's relegation even though they could very easily have taken a more belligerent route. They tried to regain their status on the field and it didn't happen.

[Plain of the Herbs]

They beat Lusmagh by a point last year, but the referee made a balls of his scorecard, missed a Drumcullen point and the match was declared a draw.

They subsequently finished botton of the group on score difference, tied with Lusmagh, went into the relegation series and were beaten by both Shamrocks and Clareen. They could have looked for their case to be looked at more sympathetically given the circumstances of the above, but chose to go down to intermediate.

Cheers POTH but I'm more specifically talking about this?

They would have won a lot of neutral support with the way they accepted last year's relegation even though they could very easily have taken a more belligerent route. They tried to regain their status on the field and it didn't happen.

[Lone Shark]

For someone who's out of the loop on these things what happened Drumcullen?

This year, they just failed to qualify out of their group on three points - last year they got relegated after finishing bottom of their group, but they only finished bottom of their group on account of their "draw" with Lusmagh, a game that they were widely acknowledged to have won, but for Declan Cooke making a counting error. The score was 2-10 to 0-15, but only 2-9 of their tally went into the referee's report, and the rest is history. By the time the relegation playoffs came around, plenty of the panel had upped sticks for America.


Edit - too slow off the draw....

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Discipline has cost them on the field for as long as I’ve been watching them, and they’ve had only 2 county seniors since Paddy Molloy finished up – Pat Fleury & Conor Gath. That’s 2 in almost forty years! They last won the county title in 1960 when they beat Shinrone by one point (apparently John Dowling rode Shinrone out of it), and haven’t reached a semi-final in at least 30 years. Then again, while they’ve won 17 county titles, they won 7 in a period in the 1920’s (I think) and seven more in a ten year period between 1950 and 1960, so presumably they had 2 golden generations those times like alot of rural teams would tend to have.

One can only but feel a degree of sympathy for Drumcullen given last year's relegation and the circumstances in which it occured but when the above statistics are looked at it becomes clear that the intermediate grade is where this club belongs. Not being competitive in the county championship is one thing but only producing two county seniors in the last 40 years is a damning statistic. This allied to their inability to produce underage teams paints a bleak picture for this club.

Agree completly regarding reducing the senior championship to ten teams. Some of the current senior teams really are, for want of a better word, hopeless. Also, it might make the intermediate championship more relevant and competitive if 'B' teams from the senior clubs aren't winning it the majority of years.

[TheManFromFerbane]

Ouch! Poor Buggers. That's definitely a hard one to get back from alright.

[beirut]

A bit harsh saying that's where we belong just because we haven't produced many county hurlers although I remember Aidan Mannion, Tony Ryan, Pierce Gath and Brian Gath getting good runs in the league for Offaly in the golden years but just didn't make the break through for Championship I suppose.

I think we thought we are a Senior club and just had to turn up to all our Intermediate matches to win it. The lads played all our Senior League games as if their lives depended on it, but couldn't produce the same in Championship. It will be tough to get back up Senior in the coming years but hopefully the same cockiness won't be there next year.

Numbers is definitely going to be a problem in a few years, with no teams available at U16 to U21, but in saying that there shouldn't be any retirements from the Intermediate team for another 2-3 years. So the U14's should be ready to step up by then.

I agree with the 10 team Senior Championship and as someone also mentioned on here before that this should also be the same for Intermediate and Junior A... two groups of 5, format it like the Senior, hopefully making it more competitive.

If a Seniors second team win Intermediate does that mean Ballyskenagh would stay up (just presuming they lose the relegation battle)?

[Lone Shark]

A bit harsh saying that's where we belong just because we haven't produced many county hurlers although I remember Aidan Mannion, Tony Ryan, Pierce Gath and Brian Gath getting good runs in the league for Offaly in the golden years but just didn't make the break through for Championship I suppose.

I think we thought we are a Senior club and just had to turn up to all our Intermediate matches to win it. The lads played all our Senior League games as if their lives depended on it, but couldn't produce the same in Championship. It will be tough to get back up Senior in the coming years but hopefully the same cockiness won't be there next year.

Numbers is definitely going to be a problem in a few years, with no teams available at U16 to U21, but in saying that there shouldn't be any retirements from the Intermediate team for another 2-3 years. So the U14's should be ready to step up by then.

I agree with the 10 team Senior Championship and as someone also mentioned on here before that this should also be the same for Intermediate and Junior A... two groups of 5, format it like the Senior, hopefully making it more competitive.

If a Seniors second team win Intermediate does that mean Ballyskenagh would stay up (just presuming they lose the relegation battle)?

I'd agree that there isn't necessarily a correlation between county seniors and senior status as a club, however results this year do suggest that the club is an intermediate standard team right now. Obviously that's not to say that there aren't a few more senior clubs in a similar situation, but that's a separate issue.

Regarding numbers, I'm a bit baffled here - ye're able to field three adult teams, and yet there aren't enough teenagers to field at U-16, minor or U-21? It seems a strange situation, but I'm unfamiliar with the demographics down there so fair enough. Are there just no families with teenage kids, or is it the case that the kids are there but aren't hurling?

I'd love to see the ten team structure moved along, but as we said before, it would be a nightmare to get clubs to go along with it. Not alone would you have three or four senior clubs in danger of being relegated to junior, but many of the intermediate clubs would be relegated to junior. I'm thinking clubs like Crinkill and Killurin wouldn't love this policy. It does seem like the right thing to do though.

As for Ballyskenach, well the rules are that if no team comes up, by rights no team should be obliged to go down, but unless things change significantly between now and the end of the year, you'd have to presume that they'd ask to be regraded. Maybe I'm wrong and Treasurer would be the best person to relate the mood of the club obviously enough, but results like the last few weeks have to be damaging morale you would think. Of course how the championship would function with five teams instead of six is another matter.

[joe bloggs]

I think the evidence to show that we have too many teams at senior who should be intermeiate comes from the Leinster club junior championship.
Every year we are represented in this by our Intermediate champions ( or the Intermediate Club that lasted the longest in the championship) and they are not able to beat the Junior champions from the likes of Kilkenny or Wexford.
I have said it before, to create more even and competitive championships, there should be no more than ten teams at each grade

[beirut]

No was just making the point that we have produced players at that level, unfortunately they didn't succeed making the team but those were the good days when Offaly were challenging for All Irelands. I agree we are definitely Intermediate based our our results, but I think our early exit could be put down to lads thinking we had the game won before we went out, whereas in the League we knew if we didn't work for every ball against Senior opposition we would get beat by a landslide.

As far as I know (can't be 100%) there are around 6 lads in the U16 age group only and only about 3 in the minor age group, but there seems to be a good crop coming from U14, U12 and U10 but again after that there seems to be a drought, only 2 boys in first class this year. The third team that we started up 3 years ago came out of alot of lads who gave up hurling after Minor/U21 for various reasons, just wanting to play with no real pressure about training/drinking etc but I'd say this will fizzle out in a few years time with retirement/numbers etc...

[xbiffox]

i didnt know wether to laugh or cry when i saw lads suggestn we hav 10 senior teams,there by meaning 2 teams gettin relegated and palying at intermediate level,maybe skenagh should be playing at that level but only because they have lost alot of players down through the years,very little loyalty it seems in that club...they did well to win the intermediate last year but appear out of their depth,after skenagh there is no other team that ya could say arent good enough for senior and lads would want to sit back and think why they would only want 10 senior teams,goes to show how much lads know.we are trying to promote hurling,well we should be anyway and relegating teams is not the answer and only a fool could suggest that.every senior game i have been at this year has been competitive,no team wants to lose a championship game so this idea of making it 10 teams to make it more competitive is a load of bull

[Lone Shark]

Disagree. It doesn't help Offaly hurling for the Intermediate champions to be a second string team, as has happened in seven of the last twelve years and three of the last four. You can say it's competitive at senior level, but seven of the twelve clubs in the senior championship have shipped at least one heavy beating so far this year and there's a strong possibility that number will move to eight after tonight.

People talk of hurling at senior as if it's automatically better for a club, but surely if the intermediate championship is improved, as it would be if two of the existing senior clubs were down there and four of the weakest teams were moved down to junior, then surely it would be better than staying senior and shipping heavy beatings, with nothing to aim for except getting a win or two and staying up?

The aim should be to have more clubs hurling at their own level. Drumcullen proved this year that Intermediate is their level, and I'd say that two or three of the current senior clubs would prove the same if they were to go down.

Realistically, there are three or four clubs at senior that would be 100/1 shots or longer to win the championship - that's not how it should be at all.