Divide the County, and Conquer

[Lone Shark]

This is largely in response to AZ's implorings that we move to a divisional structure. Having looked at the case for a while, I'm inclined to agree, based on the following type of set up. I've submitted it to the Indo, but I suspect it'll be a bit long, but you never know. All thoughts welcome anyway.

Hard cases make for bad law. As old sayings go, it’s not one of the more well known, if for no other reason than your average Bórd na Móna or Banagher Concrete employee tends not to be involved in legislating for the state on a day to day basis. Members of the legal profession on the other hand will know it all too well, usually invoking it when ill-thought out laws are imposed in response to a crisis, or a one off emotional case .

It could be argued that Offaly football right now is a very hard case. Division 4, a pathetic display in the Leinster Championship and an atrocious exit from the Tommy Murphy cup at the hands of Wicklow have reduced the county’s supporters and indeed those on the county board charged with the administration of the sport to utter distress. That something has to be done is not in doubt.

The danger is that it appears that something is being done, with the county board having opened discussions on the feasibility of parish teams being imposed. This is the ultimate in ill thought out solutions, with countless reasons why it should not be done – but here’s a few, just for starters:

(1) Rivalries within parishes are among the most intense in the county – there is little or no chance that amalgamated teams would be anything other than playgrounds for biased selectors who would be fighting for their own players over the interest of the team.
(2) Many of the parishes in Offaly would still be off the pace if they were amalgamated. The point of creating parish teams is that the overall standard is raised and that these new teams could be competitive in a senior championship. The parishes of Daingean, Killeigh/Raheen and St. Broughan’s are often cited, but the truth is that none of these amalgamations have a county starter between them, and the amalgamation would still be way off the standard required to win the Dowling cup. In this scenario players would choose to put their primary focus on the titles they could win – the Intermediate and Junior championships with their clubs.
(3) Much of the strength of Offaly football is derived from the hard work of tiny villages that would be swallowed up in these arrangements. Any system could only work if these clubs are kept going as full adult clubs, with any additional structure introduced to work in harmony with this. A parish team in Killeigh Raheen for example would have to mean that these clubs could never go senior on their own – the parish team would be decimated if Raheen for example won the Intermediate championship on their own, as they look quite likely to do this year. In that situation Raheen would want to play senior by themselves, and the parish team would cease to exist. The same could apply in St. Broughans were Walsh Island to make the breakthrough, or Edenderry for that matter. Or to take another view on it, how is football in Croghan served when only two or three players are good enough to make a Rhode parish team?
(4) What of the clubs that are a parish by themselves? The whole point is that every player can play senior football if he’s good enough. How does this serve Seán Ryan of Birr or Conor Mahon of Kilcormac/Killoughey, two county panellists who would still have no access to senior football.

The truth is that a solution exists, and the remarkable thing is that the template is in place and serving no less a county than Kerry. They create districts, where Intermediate and Junior club players can play in the senior championships with their “Divisional” teams, and if the club is good enough to get promoted to senior by themselves, the divisional team can keep going since no one club forms the majority of players on any team.

Remarkably, these divisions already exist in Offaly, helpfully put in place by the church in the form of dioceses – no doubt the early archbishops foresaw the impending crisis in Offaly GAA. The names would need work, but if the divisions were (1) the parishes in the Killaloe diocese (along with Clareen of Ossory), (2) the parishes of Ardagh and Clonmacnoise (along with Lusmagh of Clonfert) (3) the parishes of the Meath Diocese and (4) the parishes of Kildare and Leighlin, we would have four very competitive teams. These four divisional teams, along with ten senior clubs, would form a county championship where all of Offaly’s best players were taking part. They would also ensure that the players would take it very seriously, as Kildare and Leighlin would offer the likes of Padraig Bracken and Ross Connor a much better chance of a county senior medal than their respective parish teams ever could. Some of the districts would seem a bit light, but when one factors in that a couple of extra teams would have to be relegated in order for this to work, most divisions would have a fair few clubs to pick from.

The format would be fairly simple – three senior championship groups, two of five clubs each and one of the four divisions, with the top six clubs and two divisions making the quarters. The divisions would have to be kept apart to ensure that a divisional team with very little time to prepare as a unit would not get caught out by a club team that has had much more training time together. Thus all the best players in Offaly would be taking part in the senior championship, and we would no longer have one of the few championships in Ireland where so many “senior” clubs take the field in May as 100/1 shots to lift the county title. (Your writer is also a bookmaker by profession, and in very few other counties would teams that are twelve or thirteen points worse than the front-runners – i.e. complete no-hopers of ultimate success - be senior grade).

Aside from the benefits to the senior championship, the creation of coherent amalgamations at minor and under-21 level would provide much better championships at those grades also, while creating real continuity in these new amalgamations. It would also create enthusiasm for the senior championship in areas where none has existed for some time. Finally, who’s to say that there aren’t players in all these junior clubs that would surprise us all if they made the step up? Good players are hard enough to come by without leaving in place a structure that can hide them. Perhaps in Clonbullogue there is a corner back capable of neutralising any corner forward in Ireland, but we’ll never know because he goes about his business quietly and never gets the chance to mark a Niall McNamee or Thomas Deehan to prove the point.

As with any change, there would be tough pills to swallow. Right now there are twelve senior clubs in Offaly, and realistically this would have to reduce to ten. Many clubs find senior status hard enough to obtain and hold already without raising the bar even further. Players from intermediate and junior clubs would have to spend a set amount of time with their divisional squad rather than just spending all their time with the club team (though this could be counteracted by the improved training that the players might get, with the knock on effect for the club side).

Above all, the whole point of creating these teams is to make them competitive. If they are competitive, they will win games and eventually one of them will win the championship. No doubt there would then be mutterings about how hard a county title is to win anyway without these amalgamations coming in, but the hope would be that the greater good would be understood by all. In Kerry this year, South Kerry are going for their fourth Kerry championship in a row, while it looks likely that three of the four semi finalists in 2007 will be divisional sides. One has to wonder how other clubs in Offaly would feel if the equivalent situation occurred here and it was Rhode along with Clonmacnoise, Leighlin and Killaloe in the county semi finals.

Ultimately, the hope has to be that they’d understand, simply because the standard of the county team would be brought on to a degree where being an Offaly supporter would be something to celebrate again.

As a final thought for the county board, this should be considered. When looking to improve football in the county, who should be the model? Parish amalgamations have been brought into place in Laois in recent years, and while obviously Laois have certainly had the upper hand over Offaly in this decade, another perspective would be that they have taken a string of highly talented minor teams and landed a solitary Leinster Championship as their only senior trophy. A Leinster title is not to be sniffed at, but is it really a sufficient harvest with such great underage success?

On the other hand, should we model ourselves on the kingpins of the game, the one team in the country who are competitive year in year out and for whom All Ireland success and only All Ireland success is the benchmark? It should be straightforward. No bad law please lads.

[ballymanabroad]

Maith an Fearr LS. A well thought out proposal there. It is definately time for a bold decision on the future of the Senior Championship to be made. Is there a case for the same kind of system to be used in Hurling - POTH?

[Muck Savage]

Well worth a think about. I never thought the Parish thing could work in Offaly. Case in point is Ferbane. A few years back when themselves and Belmont (who had a Senior football team at that time also) joined together should have been the makings of a Championship winning side. However truth is Ferbane has never really recovered from that and have made the knock out stages of the championship very few times since they joined.
This is a much better idea, having said that Take Ardagh & Clonmacnoise, the teams in this divisonal side are, Shannonbridge, Ballycumber, Eirn Rovers, Doon and maybe Tubber(I'm not sure). Right now only one of them are outside Senior grade and it's possible all of them would be senior next year. Now I don't think any of them have a chance of winning the thing but that leaves one divisonal side gone. I could be wrong here. I'm not familiar with the other club make ups for the other Div teams, can someone list them out? I think it would be great for the Birr players whom I feel have some right good footballers (Ryan, the Lonnegans, Verney etc.) who have been on minor and U21 teams in the last few years. So this is a welcome and well thought out proposal.

Can someone list out the club make up of all the divisonal teams?

[Lone Shark]

You see you have to bear in mind that while right now the Clonmacnoise bit would be fairly weak, that's in a structure with 12 senior teams - if two of them went down, that would leave a lot of space. If one were to argue that all three in this year's relegation battle went down, the divisions would be as follows with the senior teams highlighted in bold and the intermediate champions left to be decided to make up the ten.

[img=http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/25799/2002435896198527002_th.jpg]

Now having said all that, Kildare/Leighlin still looks strong. There would possibly be a case for moving the Killeigh parish or else the Daingean parish teams into the Meath section, and then shunting K/K and Drumcullen into Clonmacnoise. These are only details though - the key is to get people sold on the principle.

[Muck Savage]

Well you have me sold on the idea, I would agree however having Leighlin pasish as it stands would be massive strong.

Great idae, who do we need to convince and how? Maybe we should post blitz Ollie Daly, he hardly has much idea about email????

[Lone Shark]

Again, if you were to make the same switches as were outlined above, it would probably work out okay for the hurling as well. It would take a fair bit of relegation to get it down to 10 senior clubs, but again if we were to presume that the ten would be (based on 2007) the current seniors minus Belmont ( ), Drumcullen and Clareen, I think it would work out okay - albeit the Killaloe section with Clareen, Crinkle, Killavilla and Carrig & Riverstown would be very decent.


The one club I realise I left out was Ballycommon - they'd be in the Daingean parish and thus Leighlin section too. Definitely either they or the Killeigh bit would probably have to move west. Probably Daingean in order to leave a few more hurlers in the Leighlin section.

[midfield]

I dont know if a divisional teams are such a great idea to be honest. It obviously has its pros and cons. You qoute how it works great in Kerry ,but i dont know how it would work out in a smaller county like Offaly.

Ok , you might have a more competitive championship , but does that mean that the standard of hurling will be any better ( after all its the same players against each other )

You could lose much of the interest of the fringe player , who plays to help make up the numbers in the smaller senior clubs. Some senior clubs are really struggling for numbers and if you got these divisional teams then you lose these players and gradually the club begins further into a decline. A few years down the line , they lose a few more lads and cant field their own team even if they wanted to.

To keep the game healthy , we need as many hurlers playing as possible.

Much of Offalys hurling is based on the success of bringing in players from Smaller clubs like Clareen , Rynaghs , Birr , Lusmagh etc. Every player grows up wanting to play for his or her club. If you have divisional teams you will lose this.


what happens if a team within a divisional team feels that they could go it alone and win without the other clubs?

Are Divisional teams allowed to enter into the All Ireland club championship ?

I think that divisional teams could work at the moment only if there was a senior A and Senior B championship in Offaly , with the Senior A made up of the stronger hurling clubs - clareen , Birr , Coolderry and divisional teams of the intermediate or weaker senior clubs.

The Senior B can be made up of the weaker clubs and intermediates, thus giving them a chance to win a championship on their own.

[Lone Shark]

I think the structure covers most of the stuff you raised there to be honest.

(1) it's not the same players playing each other, since all the guys currently with intermediate and junior clubs now have the opportunity to hurl at senior, provided they are good enough. These fellas are a lot more likely to be intercounty hurlers/footballers than a guy who's the fifteenth name on the teamsheet for Belmont or Drumcullen.

(2) The clubs continue to exist and continue to be the core structure. Players do not stop playing for their club. To use a hurling example, Ger Oakley would still play for Carrig & Riverstown, but he would also play in the senior championship with the southern district, provisionally called Killaloe. Should Carrig get promoted to senior, their players would no longer be eligible for Killaloe division. Divisions would not play league and as such would not take excessive amounts of the players' time.

(3) The club can still progress through the system. The danger with parish teams is that the clubs have to be amalgamated. Ballyskenach players have to hurl with shinrone parish whether they like it or not. In a club/divisional structure Ballyskenach continues to exist for as long as they want to, they hurl senior for as long as they can avoid relegation, and their players are eligible for Killaloe should they get relegated, but they would continue to hurl in the Intermediate championship.

(4) Divisional teams would not be allowed enter the AI club. Should a divisional team win a county title, the farthest progressing club would take the spot. I don't see this as a huge drawback. Nobody would have said that Dr. Crokes were unworthy winners of the football last year had they beaten Crossmaglen the first day, even though they lost the Kerry final to South Kerry.



I think the participation point is very well made though - and that's why parish teams are not the way to go. I keep looking to Ballycumber parish - right now they field seven full adult football teams, not including under 21 sides. Sure, one Ballycumber parish team would be fairly competitive in the Dowling cup, but pretty soon they'd be fielding three or at a push four adult teams, and 50 lads no longer have a team to play for. By no stretch of the imagination is that good for Offaly GAA or is that what we should be striving for. I don't care if we'd get an All Ireland out of it (which is a ridiculous claim anyway). The GAA is there to provide games for its members - God knows there are enough barriers to this out there, without adding more.

[juteman]

Firstly I like the heading. Some action is needed and this seems an excellent idea worth introducing.
However Offaly GAA is weak at the top and this has contributed to our current situation. I doubt if they understand why you are proposing this.Expect 'bad law' if they do anything.

[azoffaly]

Good man LS. I like it I knew you'd come around

[Treasurer]

Ballyskenach players have to hurl with shinrone parish whether they like it or not.

Ballyskenagh isn't part of Shinrone Parish.

Under existing rules, Intermediate and/or junior teams are already allowed to come together to form a senior team and continue to play at the lower grade with their own club.

There was an attempt in the last couple of years to set up a separate divisional football competition but it never got off the ground, mainly due (IMHO) to it being sprung on clubs without any worthwhile consultation or discussion.

[The Magpie]

Under existing rules, Intermediate and/or junior teams are already allowed to come together to form a senior team and continue to play at the lower grade with their own club.

Can you expand on this some more Treasurer - it might well weaken the argument put forward here.

[Treasurer]

ELIGIBILITY FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS

[128] Senior
All players are eligible to participate in Inter-County and Inter-Club Senior grade.

[129] (1) Inter-Club Intermediate
All players are eligible to participate in Inter-Club Intermediate grade except:
(a) Those who have played on a Club Senior Team other than: -
(i) A Divisional or Group team or
(ii) A College Club Team, as allowed in Rule 34, Exception (3), in the current year’s Championship, or, unless regraded, in the previous year’s Championship.

(b) Those who are excluded from Intermediate status by County Bye-Law, consequent on their having played on the winning team in the previous year’s County Senior or Intermediate Championship
Final.

(2) Inter-Club Junior
All players are eligible to participate in Inter-Club Junior Grade except:
(a) Those who have played on a Club Senior or Intermediate Team other than: -
(i) A Divisional or Group Senior Team or
(ii) A College Club Team, as allowed in Rule 34, Exception (3),
in the current year’s Championship or, unless regraded, in the previous year’s Championship.

(b) Those who are excluded from Junior status by County Bye-Law, consequent on their having played on the winning team in the previous year’s County Senior, Intermediate or Junior Championship Final.

[Lone Shark]

My mistake - I took it that since ye amalgamated with them for U-21 ye were the same parish - mea culpa!!


Anyway, those rules allow amalgamated players to take part, but it still doesn't facilitate their participation. It's not as if all intermediate and junior players east of Tullamore could suddenly decide to form the Leighlin team off their own bat - no doubt loads of esxisting senior teams would object.

This would have to be formulated and regulated with a clear structure - the rules merely show that it's not banned.